aren't most (if not all) keirin frames built to individual rider specs? or at least somewhat so? IE there wouldn't be the identical angles from frame to frame, as there isn't a "model" (like a "rush" or "pista") from each maker that is produced on any scale. i mean, obviously there is the starting point of some sort of formula at the beginning which is then tweaked a .5 degree or something per rider's pref. and, since the keirin frames are made with the quite specific purpose of keirin racing, they'd be more inclined to have aggresive/steep angles since they won't ever be ridden on a street (when they are being built, in theory at least... i mean the builder and the rider don't keep in mind that one day those frames will be brought to the us by strattond or whomever and then turned over into the hands of everyone and their mother).

i guess i'm not making a point or correlation really. i don't mean to sound like i am saying "keirin frames have no place on the street" because that is just silly. maybe my point is that there shouldn't be a comparison between something that is mass produced according with no variation in angles and something that is individually tailored to (more or less) one person's choices... i don't know where i am going, sorry all!

now i have a bike with incredibly little clearance in the front and the back, and quite steep angles to boot. i also have a track bike with more lax angles, more clearance, longer (wider?) wheel base. do i notice the difference in comfort and ride quality? of course.. my back hurts a bit more when dismounting that steep tight bike. i think the gaps between my two bikes' angles, though, are a bit bigger than .8 degrees (IE the h.t. diff between the steamroller and the pista). for someone that has ridden a pista and a steamroller back to back, is the difference in steepness noticeable? curious that's all.

sorry for the apparent scatterbrainedness, and general unhelpfulness of this reply !!!