The last couple of days have been odd ones for my hobby. I completed the GT project then cut it up. While this was my plan all along it is a bit different to invest a bunch of hours to only throw it all away later. Next up was returning to the topic of this thread, making lugs. As first motivated by a frame I made last year. The start was my "making Lugs" thread. I never posted shots of the finished bike as after building it up and riding it I decided I really screwed up the geometry. Here's a bad shot of a detail of that bike.

At first I thought that I had located the DT too low down on the HT, the HJ jig I was using uses the TT and HT intersection as it's locating point. So placing the DT lower would result in the bike rotating up and back, much like a fork with a longer A-C does. That when I rode it my hips bothered me should have been a sign that more was going on, even with the seat all the way forward my set back was way long.

Today I returned to the bike and decided that I would replace the DT (just had some practice, remember) at the correct location on the HT and trim off the extra HT. I tried to install the frame in the same HJ jig using the BB, the size and ST angle and the HT top. Now I don't bother to record the jig settings with my frames and started with the jig set to my original Bike Cad plans. I was not able to get all the contact points to line up with only a lowered HT bottom. I stopped, ate some and returned to the problem. I tried to set up the frame in the jig from the back end instead. Set the CS length by actual fit (and is within a mm of design) as well as the drop. Found the ST angle to be way laid back. In comparing the various arrangements I tried with the jig and frame I think the drop setting on the build was also way off. Why? Not sure except to say I likely was distracted, still it was my mistakes that lead to this. Time to move on and remember the frustration I feel now. Andy

I've revisited the geometry, made a couple of minor tweaks and will start fresh soon. My posts of progress will be slow in coming as we're close to the bust LBS season.