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Old 04-15-20 | 08:22 AM
  #78  
RiceAWay
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Joined: Dec 2018
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Originally Posted by holybinch
once again, it's based purely on www-reading, which must be taken with a pinch of salt.
I meant the interactions between all these components, how they fit and gel together to make it a nice, seamless experience, or a hellish endeavour.
I sort of had a problem with "all you do" part. First the sealant is nasty and gooey and it gets all over your hands and anything else it can stick to which is almost everything; There's no source of water to wash it off, so it ends up all over your bar tape and ruins your gloves. Secondly, obviously our descriptive friend must be riding an MTB which are 1000 times easier to install, tubeless or tube. Third, getting a tube in a road tire and mounted without puncturing the tube while standing on the side of the road is not for the faint hearted.

Now it is possible to carry that "bacon" kit in your saddle pack and simply fill a hole that is too large for the sealant to seal. If they aren't absolutely huge that works fine if you have the room. I notice that many tubeless people don't have a saddle pack any longer because flats are so seldom. When I had my flat I was happy to have my CO2 filler and a spare cartridge which allowed me to make it home. But it also screwed up the rim so that it won't seal properly too. This was because I was forced to riding the tire until it was flat before refilling it. When I arrived home the tire was so flat that the wheel wouldn't ride on the road crown but the rear (flat) would try to slide into the gutter.

I absolutely love the way that tubeless tires ride and how seldom they get a flat. But when they do it makes hell look attractive. If I ever get that VAR tire jack and it proves to work I may change my ideas but until then I will go back to clincher RIMS and tires. You're no better off using a tubeless rim with an innertube and I have a trash can full of innertubes to prove it.

I do have a set of Chinese CF deep section (50 mm) clincher wheels and they are without a doubt the best wheels I have ever ridden. Whoever built them set the spoke tension to the absolute max so that the variation in tension doesn't matter. In strong side gusts they actually have less reaction to the gusts than my Campy Neurons which are box sections. The newer Chinese wheels have real Aero spokes and they tension properly. But that doesn't change the fact that carbon lay-ups do not have equal strength across the entire rim, so the spoke tensions vary all over the map. As above, it the tensions are set high enough the wheel ends up being so stiff that it doesn't matter. But therein lies the rub. Manufacturer spoke tensions are there for a reason. Round double or triple butted and aero spokes which are double butted have a max strength and hitting a good pothole can stretch or more likely break them so you can only set them to the highest that the manufacturer says. Originally those Chinese wheels had what they called "aero" spokes that where flat plates (rectangular shapes) with 3 to 5 times the strength of a normal spoke. This had two effects - spoke tensiometers would not read their tension properly and hence the automatic wheel building machines would not tension the spokes properly and the wheel would move all over the place relative to the hub. Talk about scary. Also the original wheels had standard spoke nipples and they were a real pain in the ass to bring up to high enough tension. These nipples were aluminum so you had to have a perfect fitting spoke wrench or you rounded off the nipple. Plus, invariably the spokes would be too long so you might not be able to actually tighten them enough. Later they started using nipples with square heads inside the rim and you could buy a special nut-driver that would fit them and they were all hell and gone easier to tension. But again, the flat spokes would usually be too long and you would have a difficult time tensioning them enough to stop motions of the rim under high loads such as the way I descend.

In any case, the aluminum wheels are made out of a sheet of aluminum and the nipple beds are flat. And the strength of the sides of the rim are very close in strength for the entire diameter of the wheel. So spoke tensions are the same for a round and true spoking. These wheels still have the problem that they are set up for tubeless operation but also the center well is deeper than on the carbon wheels so they mount SLIGHTLY easier. Eventually I will try them as tubeless since I haven't given up on tubeless. Sometime California might get another Republican government and the roads will be repaired instead of patched. There will be less humps and bumps for glass and metal to hide in and give you much larger punctures than the tubeless can handle.

But until that time you should probably understand that the promise of tubeless isn't what it should be and repairing a badly damaged tubeless tire out in the middle of nowhere can be more than a trying experience.

NOTE: one of the videos I saw on YouTube was a man mounting a tubeless tire. He had an expensive wheelset (probably carbon but they were CX sections - shallow soas not to pick up mud) and he was using Pirelli tires. He put them on using just is hands. So either the tire and wheelset are perfectly matched or he has the hands of a gorilla. If I could do that with my wheels I would not have a single complaint about tubeless.

FURTHER NOTE: Stan's makes a great repair kit that fits in your seat pack so you probably don't need to carry a tube. Anything that this can't seal can't be repaired by putting a tube into your tire. Now this does NOT cure the major problem of it being almost impossible to get a tubeless tire onto a tubeless wheel rim but when I get a jack and if that works I'll be back to recommending tubeless again. https://www.amazon.com/Stans-Dart-Tu...%2C200&sr=8-16 and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=ATVPDKIKX0DER It is important to note that IF this mounting was not a problem these tools would not be available.

Last edited by RiceAWay; 04-16-20 at 08:51 AM.
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