Before buying my Ortlieb, which as I said I do not like--weight, material, no pockets--I spent a long time searching. Wife got Axiom. Apart from the shoulder strap, they are better than Ortlieb; but the company has zero customer service and I would not buy them again. The thing I discovered is that compared to backpacks, the world of panniers is extremely limited and almost shockingly there seems to be no interest in lightweight models. I pack fro touring the same way I do for hiking, which means choosing carefully what I actually need and always buying lightweight gear. Aside from the fan club Ortlieb seems to have, I don't understand why people think the total weight of their touring bike is not important. As I live in Japan and spend hours riding up endless mountains, weight is a primary concern.