+1 on bikingshearer's advice. FYI, there are also 13/14/15/14 spokes available that are FAR superior for loaded touring. The 13 ga. spoke head reinforces the bend in the spoke where most spoke failures occur. You'll have to drill out your hubs for the larger spoke heads, but it should be worth it in reduced breakage and stress. I recently had Rev. Chuck build me some heavy-duty wheels with these spokes & I'm happy with them.