Originally Posted by
bulgie
Having a steerer come out of the crown is just amazingly inept framebuilding. It should literally be impossible (and I don't use 'literally' to mean 'figuratively' like the kids do these days). Unless the original hack who made it was a poorly-trained idiot on drugs, the steerer-to-crown bond is way stronger than either the steerer or the crown. So if you tried pulling it apart with massive hydraulics or whatever it takes, the steerer or crown would fail before the braze did. And that bond doesn't have a "shelf life", it can't be worn out from riding. Many forks made in the 1870s are still safely connected there, so this being from the 1970s is no excuse.
BTW I'm pretty sure what your friends bought weren't really Witcombs. The ones that came with cottered cranks, though sold under the Witcomb name, were not made by them. Richard Sachs who worked for Witcomb back then had this to say: "
these are the POS Witcomb USA branded bicycles made in a factory in Pwllheli, Wales."
He went on:
"
The factory never made bicycles before these. And after three containers worth I doubt they continued. There was no rhyme or reason to the placement of brake bridges and chain stay lengths. These gaffes affected brake, tire and chain ring clearances. Many head tubes weren't faced, and the tubes showed through the lugs by a millimeter or so."
"At least an entire container of bicycles came (assembled, and boxed) on which the seat lugs weren't slotted for the binder bolts."
[the smiley is my comment, not part of the Richard Sachs quote.]
So, with a fork that ineptly made, I'm pretty sure I would never trust it even if someone good brazed in the steerer. I wouldn't ride the "His" either, since its steerer may be one ride away from popping out. How would you know? (
Before it happens that is.
After it pops out, you'll know!)
These are just bad bikes that should never have been made, and fixing them will cost more than buying some actually good vintage bikes. I can see over-paying to fix them if the sentimental value trumps rationality, but your friends should be told that these will never be good bikes. They should be considered BSOs (bike-shaped objects).
Any chance of getting photos of the crown and steerer? Preferably with them apart, though I realize that may be difficult. Good, focused close-ups will be a minimum requirement to get a meaningful repair estimate from the framebuilders on the list. I myself am a retired ex-framebuilder who's gradually gearing up to make them again on a hobby basis, but I won't be bidding on this job. I only want to see photos because I'm curious, and I have a collection of pictures of really bad bike frame workmanship that I've collected over the years.
Mark B in Seattle
Mark, thanks a lot for your input! I've also spoken to Richard about these, and he shared his opinions. They might be Witcombs simply because of original labelling, but I get your point. I expected something like a Mercian or Woodrup, and I see something different. And working with these frames in the wake of working with my Super Course, '52 Rudge Aero Special, and (on the other side of the coin) my '80s Mondonico ... yes I see the difference! I've never previously had a fork in my hands which did not feel solid. And in previous cases of stuck forks I have cranked pretty hard on the 'bars while holding the wheel, (one of our colleagues has already chided me in this thread that wheels are not made for this stress) the forks have always felt as solid as a rock, so I can appreciate the uniqueness of this problem and the rider risk. Still, they have carried their riders for 50 years.
I confess when I first tried to remove the cockpit on the Hers I gave it a mighty heave, and the fork blades are now more out of alignment than before. When I attached my "mule" wheel yesterday and the motion began, it was a struggle to mate the wheel to the dropouts. But I have nowhere near the kind of strength it would take to have created the loose head tube. I think the crown would not have twisted as it did if the steerer was properly attached.
I can also appreciate how a pinned construction could have provided a redundant connection, but that does not demonstrate it is needed, because I'd guess way fewer than 1% of even handmade frames are pinned, and it sounds like a broken of missing braze is just extremely rare. My Mondonico is noticably pinned in the BB but not in the fork crown, and my '60s Rossignoli was pinned in the BB and in the fork.
Today I need to turn the frame fork so I don't have 50-something ratty BBs on my floor and getting stepped on my my old bare feet. After that I should be able to share some pics. For comparison you can look at the His as well as the Hers.