Originally Posted by
lorica
I'm not sure I understand your comment about the seat binder bolt being false. Are you saying that the Campag 50th anv collection does not include a seat binder bolt or that the binder bolt on the bike above is not the bolt that comes with the collection. If you're saying that the collection did not include a seat binder bolt, please find a photo of a collection case. The binder bolt is located on the upper half between the seat post and the RD. If you're saying that the binder bolt on the bike isn't a 50th Anv, one, what causes you to believe that?
Regarding what you believe is a subterfufuge offer to sell, I mention in my original post that I just upgraded to a paid subscription and will be posting it in the for sale section of the market place. There was no need for deception as you apparently deemed my post to be. The bike is already listed for sale elsewhere and I want to see if I can definitively date the frame.
If the rules prohibit me from mentioning that I will be listing it for sale on this forum, I'm sorry that I was unaware and ask for grace. I don't post that often. I haven't listed it in the marketplace yet because I have a lot of photos and am trying to decide how best to post them without taking too much bandwidth. I'll probably load them into Google Drive and post the link.
Lastly, thank you for the compliment i=of it being a nice bike and your appraisal of $5,000. May I ask how you determined that to be the value?
Thank you.
Cinelli frames of this era cannot accept a Campagnolo seat binder bolt, the opening is not big enough and too wide. Campagnolo bolts are stamped with Campagnolo on the rim and are 8 or 10 mm in diameter.
The frame is nicely repainted, but it is not accurate. The original model name on the seat tube was a sticker applied after the clear. It varied in actual text, the variations that confound many.
No doubt much money was spent on the refinish, possibly even rechrome, Big dollars that will rarely be recovered.
There is a sales section on the Forum. Advertising it in a information seeking post is poor taste.
Cinelli serial numbers are all over the map, if you can find the old Cinelli serial number database, (I could not bring it back up, possibly moved) it is plain to see, frame details are the best rational indicator, geometry, lug detailing, inclusion or absence of the spring hole on the drive side rear dropout, and inclusion or not of an oil port on the bottom bracket, also details such as inclusion of rear fender mount boss on the chainstay bridge.
As to value- lets start with a Cinelli frame in need of refinishing, $800- 1,200. the paint, graphics, chrome and project management, $2,000 to 2,600. value when done $1,800 to 2,000
Bicycle owners do not get rich restoring bikes, maybe if they have a Confente or Rene Herse, Maybe.
The group set, wrong for the frame era, in nice shape, but no longer NOS, it has been installed, $2,500.
Ancillary parts, $500. if you shop well.
Assembly cost, a sunk cost, the owner pays, no one values it. Whenever I purchase a bike, I totally repack Everything. I have Always found shortcomings, just how it is.
Many vintage traders lament that a bike parted out is greater than whole.
There as a recent example, John Barron, a smart collector, he offered a nice track bike for under $2,000. to the CR group, no takers, then offered the frame set for $1,200 the bars and stem for $500. he still has a pristine Campagnolo wheel set, pista crank set, bottom bracket, pedals , seatpost, saddle, toe clips and straps to move along. This happened to him years ago too with a full Campagnolo NOS LeJeune, on the verge of dismemberment he found someone who bought it whole, probably at a discount, the buyer kept it intact. Profit was not maximized. No effort to take it apart and market the elements a la carte, there is some time saved.
The bike is pretty, but not correct. the 50th anniversary group came along over a decade later. I have not studied the frame, the 50th anniversary group was in the 126mm six speed era. The full zoot kit would inclued a Campagnolo freewheel, 6 cogs, not part of the 50th group, but if one is going full tilt, throw it in. Every Cinelli frame of the era you are offering was 120mm spaced that came into the shop that I worked at 45+ years ago. If it is 126mm it has been spread, (99.9% sure) a downer to many, acceptable to some, but not period correct.
Richard Sachs has stated that he has "kicking and screaming" spread frames from 120 to 126mm. I think that is a turn of phrase, but shows his reluctance.
You have an attractive bike that could be duplicated for about $5,000. quite a bit less if not needing a respray and rechrome.
That is how I arrived at a value.