Originally Posted by
fishboat
My apologies for bringing back a partial zombie-thread, but I think you folks can help me out.
In the next couple days I plan to paint a bike frame. All the materials are auto-paint grade (PPG). I had the color coats custom made and loaded into rattle cans.
The frame and fork are hand-stripped down to bare metal(steel).
Paint schedule:
1) Dewax-degrease spray
2) 2K primer (Spray Max)
3) Spray color coat #1 (fork, head tube, parts of the top & down tubes, Spray Max 368 2071)
4) Wait 5-6 hrs (suggested by paint desk guy)
5) Mask up parts of fork, top & down tube with auto grade fine-line tape(3M)
6) Spray color coat #2 (frame & over masked parts of color coat #1, Spray Max 368 2071)
7) Wait 2-3 minutes and pull off masking tape
8) Wait ????
9) Apply decals (dry application)
10) Spray 2K clear coat (Spray Max Glamour Coat)
The guy at the paint desk says the base coat needs to be clear coated within 24 hours.
Question 1) I'm not sure how long I have to wait to apply the decals over fresh paint (color coat #2). Any ideas/experience? If I have to wait 5-6 hours to mask off the first color coat and then another 5-6 hours to apply decals...and then do the clear coat, this will be a very long day, assuming the day doesn't go south with wind, humidity....(I'm painting outside)
Question #2) As a fallback option, I'm considering skipping the decal step and going straight to the clearcoat 30 minutes after I spray color coat #2. If I let the clear coat set up for a day or two (the tech data sheet says the 2K clear coat can be sanded and polished after 24 hours), can I apply the decals and then clear coat again? I'm guessing the cured clear coat will need to be wet sanded with 1000-1500 grit, wipe with tack solvent, and then sprayed?
thx..
...first, I am not nearly as fastidious as Mr Fattic. It's just not in my nature.
Second, and more importantly, I have already said up thread that I routinely go outside the manufacturers recommendations about recoat windows. Thus far, this has worked out OK for me. But the timing off sticker or decal installation is a major sticking point in painting a bicycle, as opposed to a car (which are usually graphics free.) When the Urethane clears first came out, all the car guys were oohing and ahhing about how cool it was to have this clear, high gloss finish coat that would go on over almost anything, create a durable final surface, and I still feel that way.
It is true that you can put some sort of intermediate clear coat over your more fragile color coat within the window. Then wait for it to dry (it sets up pretty rapidly to where you can work in the stickers.) But I remain unconvinced that this makes for a better overall result. The issue with applying the decals to a color coat that has not had time to fully bond and harden (it never gets really hard unless you use an epoxy paint as your color coat, and this is rarely done), is, off course, that in positioning and repositioning the vinyl graphics, some of it will lift. Which makes the job still salvageable, but a lot more time consuming to fix.
Take it for what it is worth, since I am satisfied with somewhat lesser results (I don't set up a spray booth, and I paint in the back yard, in the shade of a tree). But I prefer to simply let the color coat cure for a couple of days before I go at it. The only way I can get the graphics on there straight is with the use off some low tack masking tape boundaries, on which I have inked some alignment lines. Even the low tack stuff needs to be toned down a little, by sticking it on your shirt or a rag to make the adhesive less aggressive. Otherwise I risk lifting some of the color. And I'm too slow at this to get the graphics positioned rightly without those guides and some measuring while in process.
I have not, to date, noticed any tendency toward early failure of my paint jobs, even though done in this manner. I wish I had the time and patience (and money), to mix and apply intermediate clear coats, but I don't. I do have a policy of doing fill color in any pantographing and any lug lining after the final clear coat is already on and cured, for this very reason. I often make small errors on that stuff, and it's easier to remove it and fix it once you have the clear urethane on and hardened. I've been doing frames this way at a rate off four or five annually for about six or seven years now, so it's a small sample size.
On getting a good result from your final application of clear urethane: Buy and use the stuff called "Clear Glamour". It is formulated to go on and hold a little bit thicker than some of the other clear urethane formulations. And take an old piece of pipe or round conduit, and use it to practice applying the paint so it is covers the surface all around to a point just short of running. It's hard to describe, but the surface gets a wet look, and what is happening is that the paint layer is on there in sufficient quantity that it levels itself, creating a surface that will look glassy as the final result. Done correctly, it requires no polishing to look good.
If you do get a couple of runs, don't attempt to fix them, other than to rotate the frame to reverse its direction, so they won't continue. I paint with the frame held from an old seat post of the proper diameter, inserted far enough to hold securely. That post is secured in a standard bicycle work stand clamp, masked with old socks. So I can spin the frame I'm painting in any orientation I need to work on any aspect of it. Saves my aging body from awkward positioning.
Any small runs will eventually dry clear, like the rest of the paint. You can polish them out if they bother you, but it's a lot of work. Otherwise, with multiple light coats of clear urethane, there's some risk of a less glossy surface in the final result, or even the dreaded orange peel.

Try to relax, and be grateful it's just a bicycle. I hope this is of value to you. If nothing else, as a primer on how the less fastidious do it. You can choose your personal standard of perfection.