Originally Posted by
timsch
I'd assume geometry is part of it, but what else, other than crappy components?
The geometries are the same; the components make the difference, not necessarily 100% weight, but certain wheels, etc. The fork in the earlier models was not great. They changed to a threadless fork later, not on the PDG version, but the fork makes a big difference, too.
Originally Posted by
timsch
I'd be interested to know more about what build makes it magnificent vs sluggish.
Sluggish: My first build was 600 Ultegra, model is 6400, a.k.a. "tricolor." The wheels were Araya CTL370's on the tricolor hubs. I think the sheer weight was a factor, and 1992 wheels, by 2010, are probably kind of dead. I was not into getting them trued and tensioned. Fork was a Kestrel EMS, steel steerer, quill stem, alloy bars, seat post, "normal saddle." It rode, well, not well compared to a couple nice steel bikes.
Not sluggish but horrible: Probably my 3rd or 4th 200-series was a later-model 200SCI, 1" threadless Kestrel EMS Pro fork. I was asked to build it as light as possible, and I did. I used 9-sp DA FD/RD/DT shifters, Modolo composite brake levers, a corncob cassette, full carbon stem/bar/saddle, very light Nimbus wheels, external cup FSA carbon cranks. It was around 16 lbs, very stiff, and rode like a piece of plywood on wheels. It was light but did not want to move out of a straight line. I rode it one test ride and promptly shipped it to the CA bike shop that wanted it.
Amazing, not sure why: A friend bought probably a pre-1990 frame with a 1" threaded Kestrel EMS fork. It was green and especially ugly, white lettering. He pulled the fork for a Ritchey Carbon 1" threadless, FSA headset, carbon stem/FSA alloy bars. He installed 2x10 5700 shifters, 6700 FD/RD, a Stronglight Pulzion crankset, and American Classic Victory 30 wheels, Origin8 TorqueLight calipers. He had it repainted all black, eschewed decals. We were on a ride, me on a 16.5lb Wraith and he on the Kestrel. His FD came loose, so I volunteered to ride it home on the small ring and figured he'd like the Wraith during the swap. It was fast, nimble, light. I had probably the fastest 6-7 miles I've ever done on it, carrying far more speed than normal. We finished up, and we swapped back. I couldn't get the Wraith to ride like that, even in the same gear. Instantly curious and jealous. I think it was the combination of the components and very lively alloy wheels.
A while ago, I got an excellent deal on a 2011 SuperSix, 2x10 Di2 Ultegra, SuperTeam wheels. I swapped in Zipp 404 tubulars. Well under 16 lbs and Di2-steady. He let me know it was time for him to get "a newer bike." I traded him the SuperSix for the Kestrel and a set of DA9000/Mavic Open Pro UST wheels. While it may have been a bit "light" on my side, I have what I thought was magic and he's on a modern bike he won't be replacing any time soon. I'm convinced it's the wheel/BB weight placement that made such a difference, but of course, it's everything. It rides great. It will never rival a precision petite Italian frame with the same components, but it's a ton better than any of the 200's I've had.
The reason I think wheels make a difference, is back when the Easton EA90 SLX's were the "standard," I built one with those, 9-sp Ultegra otherwise, and it rode pretty well. I tried a set of carbon wheels on one of the 200-series I built, and it seemed skittish. I know there were BB shell changes/issues during the production run, but not sure what they may have had to do with anything.
Writing this makes me want to take a crack at a Series 9, but it would only retain the frame, and Paramount fans, even PDG ones, would denigrate me more than they do now.
Were I to restore one, with the tricolor, I'd do the following, really just cleaning and tuning to a gnat's.....
1-re-pack that heavy BB.
2-get the OEM wheels trued and tensioned, try to bring some life back into them. O/H the hubs.
3-repack and adjust that headset.
4-get the Paramount stem. I believe it was a Tange Prestige and light enough. Swap the steel wedge for an alloy one.
4 twice-OEM bars.
5-use the smallest cassette I could for weight savings. The 8-sp were fairly heavy.
6-try 700x25 tires if they fit, stay away from ponderous tires and heavy tubes.
7-I guess the seat post is OEM, so that stays, same as the saddle.
Were I to keep the OEM appearance, but bring it up a notch or two:
1-sell the group and wheels, swap in 9-sp DA.
2-Maybe swap the crankset for an external-cup FSA carbon.
3-Find some wheels that look the part but are tons lighter. Plenty out there.
4-3TTT stem and Forma bars. Excellent for STI's and light.
5-get a better 1" threaded fork. They are out there.
The value likely would not change much. Certainly not against the current market.
The exception would be the OEM restoration and a PDG/Schwinn fan decides it's a collectable piece.
There are people out there with PDG Series 2,3,5,7 and 9. It happens.