Maelochs

[QUOTE=rsbob;22983707]I could swear that I had an innocuous post on this thread about e-bikers needing to be schooled on being civil ... V Well, according to the "science" posted here, it is actually old folks who are ramming pedestrians with their e-bikes .... go figure. (Of course, that study spans 17 years, so it might not at all reflect the surge in e-bike popularity in the past few years. You just cannot count on Science.)

The issue, I maintain, is the rider, not the bike. As far as that goes, Most people need schooling on being civil, IMO. My next question, How do you teach people not to be buttholes? I mean ... these are not new ideas. Again I liken it to murder statutes. Even without laws most people can see that killing other people is not good ... yet people still do it. I would welcome a program which successfully taught people to be civil.

The 20 mph limit .... arbitrary but one must start somewhere. The issue would be industry push-back--Can you prove that people who have to pedal to achiever 28 mph are more safe than people who don't? If not you are artificially restricting trade. This then calls for more "science," but a major issue with "science" is funding .... One would need to track e-bike sales, but how to track miles? How many accidents are not reported, and how many are reported but the perpetrator escapes on his pedal bike ( )? How do you judge the cause of accidents and the intent of the people involved? It is very hard to conduct studies of real life, and it is impossible to recreate real life accurately for certain studies.

I agree that at some point, as with mopeds and mini-bikes, some sort of speed or power restriction might be needed,. power restrictions are usually easier to enforce, because speed can vary by rider weight, aero efficiency, etc, but power can be set at the factory and the factory can be held liable unless the machine is tampered with, which could also be made a crime (sad, that .... )

In any case, the answer is not to write new regulation, but to include e-bikes above a certain power rating in a class with similarly-powerful two-wheeled transport.

Hint: If people want this to happen, you will need a broader coalition. Go to your local MUP every weekend for a couple months and hand out flyers, create a website, get mothers' groups involved, talk at PTA meetings ..... On a local level, a small group of dedicated activists can spread ideas (good and bad) and get action on that level ... and that is where it would need to start ... and please go to the school board and get them to teach children decency and respect. Kids obviously aren't learning it at home ...

No, I read that and understood it. However, you are only one poster.

Maybe so ... did you expect calm and rational discussion just because you are being calm and rational? This is Bike Forum, my good person, where if you disagree with me twice I must attack you for certainly disagreeing with me is an attack upon me, right? And where threads have their own wills and desires .......

I cannot say what this thread wants ... beyond saying it wants for calm, rational discussion, but that is a play on different meanings of "want" and i don't want to twist anyone's knickers by twisting language, fun as both can be.

I can say that ai agree some regulation might be needed, but the only place it can be enforced is on the manufacturers .... unless you can calmly and rationally explain how to police every bike lane and MUP. Right now, we cannot even police the major vehicle routes ... I have seen, twice in one week, a car trying to pass me run another car completely off the road .... what can be done? By the time it was over, it was over, and no one had time to whip out a cell phone and video the incident, not write down license plates ... everyone was busy avoiding or escaping.

The other issue I have with regulation is well ... regulation. Rules get more restrictive and everyone runs afoul of them more often ... yet behavior does not improve. What happens is that people who are not the problem get ticketed.

Seriously ... it has been proposed before that pedal bikes be registered. (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...w-of-road-laws , https://www.citizen-times.com/story/...es/3083902002/) and in some municipalities it is already a fact: https://moco360.media/2019/12/20/is-...-its-required/

We need to be careful ... the knee-jerk call for "More regulation" as do so many things, often brings unintended side affects.

Can you imagine needing a plate and insurance for each of your bikes? The only reason we don't have it (insurance companies sure want it) is because municipal tax bases don't support it.

Anyway ... don't worry ... your post is getting read, it just doesn't have a zippy enough click-bait headline and the controversial lede needed to get traction on social media. Reason is passé ... you need to get some references to some Kardashian in there, or maybe Taylor Swift ... or "woke." Then people would respond.