Originally Posted by
veganbikes
I am aware of Shimano's line up Tourney and Claris are junk Sora is mediocre and Tiagra has improved but 105 is actually a good solid entry level groupset.
No you are not "aware" of those things. You imagine those things.
Claris (modern Claris) is a solid 8-speed group set which has benefited from all of Shimano's experience. Sora is even better. Claris is indeed "entry-level" if one is entering the world of reliable long-lasting road bikes.
The fact that you think "entry-level" means "halfway up the hierarchy" shows that either you don't understand what "entry-level" means.