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Old 04-15-24 | 06:40 PM
  #3840  
TC1
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Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 767
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From: Illinois
Originally Posted by veganbikes
You think American youth stop riding bicycles because of safety?
No, I said they stop riding as adults. This is why there are around 70M youth cyclists in the US, but only around 50M adults.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
Most kids are stopping bikes because they get a car and can go farther, we treat bicycles as basically toys in America so when you become an adult you generally get rid of your toys.
Not in this timeline. Check out the market for, well, any luxury good.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
Most of us on this forum obviously know differently but we don't see bicycles as transportation like they would in say Europe. There are loads of people who use them as transportation but our mentality is not that.
Largely because of the perception of cycling danger, as I explained. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...en-dont-cycle/ among hundreds of other studies.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
And no a helmet is not a placebo
Why then do they precisely match the statistic signature thereof?

Originally Posted by veganbikes
maybe you don't have a basic understanding of how brain injuries and head injuries work but having something to protect a very vulnerable area is pretty helpful in a crash.
The human skull is not actually all that vulnerable, especially at cycling speeds. It has been designed for millennia precisely to protect its contents, and it does a pretty good job -- and isn't assisted to a significant degree by 200 grams of plastic. Especially so when, as previously explained, that "something" causes more head impact and more severe head impacts by the very nature of its increased size.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
but I think most any E.R. doctor would tell you a helmet is better than not a helmet.
Which would be useful information if medical schools instructed doctors on accident reconstruction, statistical analysis, and a host of other skills necessary to make that judgement. But they do not.

All of which claim to find a benefit to fatal injuries which does not exist in the real world. Can you explain this problem? Why do these theoretical benefits disappear when we analyze real-world data?

And attempting to study cyclist injuries has been notoriously plagued by inaccurate studies that have been subsequently retracted. By the way, one of your studies even claims that mandatory helmet laws work -- which almost no one believes any more. And some of the studies used as few as 21 cases. So the quality of these studies leaves much to be desired.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
I get that helmets are not cool and sexy and all of that but to say they are a placebo or somehow not effective is just silly.
Again, why do bicycle helmets present the precise statistical signature of a placebo? This trumps your opinion, until and unless you can explain why bicycle helmets do not work in the real world, which we inhabit.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
The late great Mitch Hedberg had a joke about Dr. Scholl's. and it kind of fits:" Dr. Scholl is a doctor, which means he spent nine years in med school. That man wasted his time. It doesnt take a doctor to know that stepping on a cushion is more comfy. I would have bought that *stuff* from a Mr. Scholl. Maybe even a Senor Scholl.".Same sort of deal with a helmet what is more protected a bare skull with some hair (or not) or a purposefully designed bit of special foam designed to take an impact?
A most unfortunate example for your position -- since much like the human skull versus thin plastic hats, it turns out to be the case that millennia of evolution did an impressive job designing our feet and legs. To the point that there's significant debate over whether barefoot running is better than your fancy plastic shoes...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4212355/ among lots of others that are not really germane to this forum, and can be googled by interested parties.


Originally Posted by veganbikes
In terms of safety I don't see a helmet as showing people cycling is unsafe people work at construction sites, go mountain/rock climbing, white water rafting/kayaking...and wear helmets and I don't really see an ill effect from that.
It exists, and many studies have proven that the perception of danger limits cycling uptake. On this very forum, you will find many people who are happy to share that they "only ride trails" or "don't ride outside" due to perceived danger. An enormous part of the gravel boom has been this exact ideation. And it isn't unique to cycling -- I am a paddler, and a similar and similarly-misguided situation applies to personal flotation devices. There is a movement to demand that all paddlers wear PFDs at all times, and practitioners thereof love to shame anyone who dares hit the water without one -- to the point where even paddlers who are sharing water with swimming children can be harrassed. I've purchased two second-hand boats from people who stopped using them because mandatory vest laws were passed, and their wives decided that hobby was too dangerous as a result.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
I don't see a point in saying well we should intentionally not protect our heads...
Again, the protection to which you refer is imaginary. That's the point. If you believe that you need to protect your head while cycling, you should be wearing a motorcycle helmet. There's no valid argument to the contrary.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
... to make crazy claims about helmets just isn't needed.
I am not making the crazy claim, you are. The claim that bicycle helmets offer the protection that you allege they do, is crazy. That claim is contradicted by real-world statistics, and has always been, for as long as anyone has kept such statistics. Your (general) wishful thinking and hoping does not change that fact.
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