My apologies to all for hijacking this thread. Not my most sincere apologies, though, as I'll continue the OT discussion I started.

Thylacine,
On the first point, I'm talking about the quality of framebuilders as I've seen and experienced them, and that is that they are all above-average as craftsmen, and the noticeable variations are primarily in their approach and level of artistry. Your perspective as a framebuilder, and knowing many more framebuilders than I do, gives you the eye to see the crap that I don't notice, and the experience with the not-so-good framebuilders that I probably haven't even heard of. So yours is a much more knowledgeable position, and I defer to you on that. I was basically saying that I've never personally seen or known of a really bad framebuilder.

On the second point, especially given the discussion it's generated, I'll refine my original position to say that I think you should first look at your local builders (and I consider Portland and San Francisco "local" to me for this purpose since they are 5 or 6 hour's drive away and I would go visit the framebuilder there if I were going to buy a frame from them) and see if you find someone of exceptional skill who has an approach and values that you want. If you can find one, then they should top your list of who's going to build your next frame. If not, you should widen your scope to the world, and see if you can find a good framebuilder who has good experience working long-distance. I don't think that you should purchase "local only" or that a local framebuilder can necessarily listen and communicate better and build a more suitable bike, but I do think that working with someone you can visit makes it more likely that both customer and framebuilder will get a good sense of who they're working with and you'll have the necessary communication to produce something perfectly suited for you.

So again, you should look local first and worldwide second, and wherever they are, the important qualities are the framebuilder's quality of workmanship and communication skills. Given that communication is easier for both parties when you can make a visit, the communication bar is effectively raised for non-local builders, but depending on where you live, it may still be likely that you can find a better builder and communicator on the other side of the world than in your neighborhood.

Alex