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Old 01-31-25 | 09:49 AM
  #23  
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john m flores
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Originally Posted by gauvins
Hello David

As john m flores indicated, power is related to muscle mass. Not clear how much muscle mass one can get through training. In my case, I've observed a (small) increase in muscle mass since I got into touring. But age and genetics make it such that there's perhaps not much to expect from this.

Taking a step back -- my question was about the likelihood that training will lead to increased power. At this point in time I would answer a definite, but qualified yes. (1) It has led to an increase in cadence, which should translate into a power increase (not enough data yet, but indications that this will happen); (2) and perhaps some conditioning that will make me push a little harder/better. My quick superficial scan of related posts suggest a 25% increase in FTP. Asking generative models suggests 10-20% improvement in FTP. Asking about why training improves FTP, the model adds factors *other* than larger muscular mass. The first being cardio, followed by several neuro-muscular effects. Asked further about the impact of cadence, contrary to my understanding the model suggests that cadence does *not* have a direct impact on power.

Still learning...
Two comments:

One, If you're asking AI, be aware that it is often wrong. I use it every day; yesterday in particular I was amazed at the stuff it was making up. It was claiming that things happened later this year already, it was getting dates wrong, it was making up broken links as its source for information.

When using AI, I will always ask for the source of their information and then click on the link they provide and confirm. Often, I'll simply ask, "Are you sure about that?" and they'll apologize for making stuff up.

AI is both smarter than you AND dumber than you at the same time.

Two, I haven't done physics since the 1900s, but the formula for power (P) is pretty simple: P = Work (W)/Time (t), or P = W/t.
  • Riding (W) further in an hour (t) than you used to is an increase in Power (P).
  • Inversely, riding 20 miles (W) in less time (t) than you used to is also an increase in Power (P).
To answer your question about cadence and it's relation to power, we need to define Work (W). That formula is simple too: W = Force (F) * Distance (d), or W = F * d.
  • If you are in the same gear (F) and increase your cadence (d), you increase your Work (W)
  • If you choose an easier gear (F) and increase your cadence (d), whether your Work (W) increases depends upon how much easier the gear (F) is. There's a tipping point where an easier gear (F) and an increased cadence (d) does not result in more Work (W) but it can shift the stress away from your muscles (F) to your cardiovascular system (d). That's what downshifting on hills does.
To put it all together,
  • If you stay in the same gear (F) and increase your cadence (d), you increase your work (W). Take that increased (W) and apply it to the power formula, and you've also increased your power (P). Zone 2 and Zone 3 workouts focus on improving your cardio so that you can either increase your cadence or hold your cadence longer before running out of breath.
  • Strength exercises/building muscle mass opens up the opportunity to increase the force you apply to the pedals (F) while maintaining the same cadence (d). That also increases work (W) and power (P). This is what Z4 and Z5 workouts primarily improve.
  • Doing Z2, Z3, and Z4 workouts increases your power in both ways.

Again, I haven't done physics since the 1900s, so if I've got anything wrong, I hope that someone will correct me.
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