Unfortunately I simply was unable to accept the mount system on the Ortleib bags as suitable for my needs. The good news is REI happily returned them and I stumbled upon a used set of Jandd Mountain panniers what was an unbelievable price, and I picked them up today. They are older, I'm guessing 20 years of age, however they are in excellent condition. The mounting system is simple and sturdy and the Arkel mount system can easily be installed if I desire at some point. Happy camper.