Originally Posted by ih8_punkrock
I agree with almost everything you are saying here, except for the way you are talking to me, like I am "insisting on being a renegade" FR-er. That makes me go ? ? ? ?
And to label someone trouble or a suspect because they are on a 7" travel bike is just as bad as labelling someone **** because they are on an old klunker from 1985. Some people can only afford ONE bike, so they try to get the bike where their heart's at. At least they are out there riding.
And ya, IMBA is doing some good stuff.
ih8_punkrock, you seem to be defending the badly behaved free-riders who build stuff without permission. This is why ask if you are insisting on being a renegade. I.e. do your own thing with no respect to other land users or to the land manager's wishes.
I can absoluetly appreciate "the one bike". I am not saying that anyone should descriminate against people with long travel bikes. I'm saying
that if land stewards are having difficulty with unauthorized cuts (typically fall line trails which is a free-ride specialty) than those using long travel bikes on XC courses are going to attract suspicion. If there is a knife murder, the guy holding a knife is typically a suspect. That doesn't mean you conclude they did it. It means they are a candidate ;-)
This is not such a big problem on my local trail. Most problems I have are with with "shortcuts" between loops on relatively flat ground. We've had just a couple of fall line trails cut in, but they were few and far between, no need for a jihad. So I don't look at people with trail bikes with an evil eye. But if I had a serious problem that threatened to close the trail, I would start getting very serious about tracking down who it was.
Trails do get shut down. There are responsible free-riders out there. I have no idea what the percentage is. But I guarantee you it's not XC guys on hardtails with team kits cutting across switchbacks.
Originally Posted by gastro
And that totally nearsighted and absurd statement brings this thread full circle. Mtnbiker66's original post had to do with the fact that we were in fact denigrated strictly because of the the bikes we were riding. No one was wearing a full face helmet, body armor, building wooden features, or shotgunning Red Bull.
Gastro, please read what I've written above. You have taken what I said of of context. I have no bias against what type of bike people ride so long as they do it responsibly. For the record, I ride a cheapo Giant Yukon hardtail (with upgrades) and a crappy fork, so I'm not sure what kind of snobbery I could express against someone riding a $1000+ trail bike. I personally wish I had enough $$$ to get a Santa Cruz Nomad or a Lenz Leviathan that are good XC plus some travel for the rough stuff.
Originally Posted by minesborken
wow...wow...this thread wasnt about putting up obsticles and taking them down it was about riding through the trail and being ridiculed for being a different kind of rider. Most of the arrogant nasty people just happen to have expensive bikes, expensive clothes and bad attitudes...
Well, other people chimed in and reflected a freerider attitude that you can build what you want where you want and that's OK. This is an answer to the original question, of why people might sneer at free-riders (mind you I do not). There are some really irresponsible free-riders out there who's big thing is to ride wherever they like (this is where the "free" in free-rider comes from). Trails are shut down from this type of behavior. And it causes land stewards a LOT of grief to fight these people who build what they want and do not ask. No it is not equally "EVERYONE's" trail to do with as they please.
AND ... there are VERY responsible free-riders out there who build sustainable obstacles in appropriate areas. They avoid the construction of fall line trails which are the major source of erosion. They do it right. I applaud them and challenge the other free-riders to do the same and not try to augment XC courses.
And BTW, there is nothing wrong with team kits. There is something wrong with nasty attitudes and people who are too important to slow down to protect the safety of everyone involved. And some hikers are jerks when they cannot tolerate MTBers, but MTBers who buzz hikers and trail runners are jerks.