I just can't understand why committed riders can't get the quality equipment they ought to have. This doesn't mean 5K+ carbon/titanium jewels but a good midrange bike that you like. Good equipment makes such a difference. But I also know this; cheap guys cannot be changed, no matter what. It's because they have done enough transactions "on the cheap" and have believed they are happy with the result, that their so called frugal philosophy has been verified. It is carved in stone. bk