well I was looking at the trek 520 as the archetypical touring bike, but the geometry really isn't all that different from a cross bike. In fact its basically identical geometry, but the cross bike just seems more lively... Not that I can say much as I haven't really ridden either bike... I'm basically keeping my eye on a used double cross with chris king/ mavic wheels and ultegra components (38/46 with a big fat cassette). ***** stem, ergo bars, STI levers, cantis... For hauling I was sort of considering a BoB Yak, but realized that it would totally kill the drafting advantage my buddy and I could use from each other. Its also heavier, bulkier, smaller capacity and more expensive than high end racks/panniers. I like the MEC Aqua-not pannier group. I'll worry about that later though...