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Old 09-27-06 | 08:49 PM
  #36  
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TandemGeek
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Originally Posted by waterrockets
Might as well be talking about figurines, huh?
You're missing the point... but then again, you can't see the forrest for the trees as you seem to be more interested in entertaining yourself and satisfying your needs than you are in helping others to meet their needs or achieve their goals.

Let me take a step back and volunteer that I may be missing out on something here. However, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that I suspect the reason most people post questions to a tandem forum or listserve is to engage with those who have gone through the learning process with tandems and had far greater exposure to the machines and community than the folks who they could interact with in more general bicycle lists or perhaps in the Mechanics sub-forum here at BikeForums.net.

Therefore, when someone who owns a tandem asks, “what do you think of these wheels and what wheels do you use on your tandem” I’m guessing that they asked that question on a tandem list in the hopes that someone might answer who owns or has used them or perhaps has ridden with others who do.

Case in point....

The original poster wants to buy a second set of wheels that are "lighter" than the very heavy wheels he currently has on their tandem. They're a lightweight team looking to get feedback on what other tandem teams are using for wheels, to include some feedback on the Bontrager wheels that show up for around $500-$600 on Ebay now and again.

So, you recommend Rolf's tandem wheels even though you have never ridden a set because some folks here seem to like them. However, you then decide it's time to get back into your comfort zone regarding general wheel design, performance and cost/benefit analysis because that's what YOU would rather talk about. Did the OP indicate that they're on the fence regarding new wheels and would like to be talked out of it? Did the OP indicate they'd like to buy or have any interest in riding a fixed gear solo bike? Mind you, most of us diverge a bit from the question at hand but at some point most address the basic question or at least frame their alternative recommendations based on their experience riding tandems.

No so with you my friend. You troll around BikeForums seaching for any thead that mentions wheels and seemingly can't wait for someone to mention "rotating mass" or the like so you can jump in with your refererence to someone else on the Web who conducts a double blind test, to discuss acceleration, aero drag, and to regurgitate all that's ever been published regarding going faster on a bicycle and then ending with a final condescending remark. I believe the common term for taking a thread off track and down dirt roads is "hi-jacking" as evidenced by the inability to tie the original question to the discussion that follows. Speaking of which.... we now have completed the circle:

Originally Posted by Jinker
Nice. How about some facts?
Let me guess? Given the complete lack of tandem content, your regurgitation of the same canned tripe as Waterrockets, and the lack of interest in responding to the OP I must also assume that you are some type of accomplished solo cyclist who also doesn't have much if any first hand experience with tandems?

Great, two cyclists who between the two of them have probably ridden a tandem less than a couple hundred miles that want to design the perfect solo time trial bike in the middle of a thread on the Tandem Cycling sub-forum.

Give me a friggin' break.

Originally Posted by waterrockets
Yeah, it's pretty clear that tandems aren't bicycles or anything.
Let me be clear here. While tandems aren't that complex, they are decidedly different than solo bikes. Therefore, while someone may have TONS of solo bike experience, much of it is meaningless when it comes to offering objective critiques and recommendations on wheels or anything else regarding a tandem bicycle... That is unless you happen to weigh over 300 hundred pounds, generate in excess of two-times the normal wattage of a solo cyclist, and your solo bikes have a wheelbase that's 1.8x longer than normal that put massive amounts of torque, vertical loads, as well as massive cornering or side loads on your wheels during sprints, out of the saddle climbs, and under other demanding conditions. Of course, it would also help if you occasionally had a problem with "bouncing” on your saddle when you pedal as you'd find out yet another interesting cause for rear wheel spoke breakage on tandems.

But, more than just the mechanics and machines, the disposition of people who ride tandems -- that is the teams who "click" and ride them as much as they can -- are quite different than those who ride solo bikes. While there are some "killer tandem teams" out there they are the exception and not the rule. Like most single bike riders, most of the teams can't justify the use of lightweight frames or components but that's not the point, now is it? Few who own Porches, Ferraris, or Corvettes can justify them. Likewise, a large number of the very expensive carbon and Titanium tandems are not owned by Cat 2 racers in their prime or folks who hold USCF Masters licenses, they're the pride and joy of empty nesters and grandparents who can ride 50 - 100 miles a healthy clip that decided to spoil themselves with a really nice and lightweight tandem. Why? Because they've reached a point in their lives where they can afford to do so.

So, when your average tandem team wants to "spiff up their ride" with a set of wheels that make the bike feel lighter, that's what they want and it's certainly achieveable. Will any of the performance stuff really make a team stronger or faster? That depends. But, while the performance changes are small, they are in fact noticeable enough to make teams smile and sometimes all the evidence you need.

Last edited by TandemGeek; 09-27-06 at 08:55 PM.
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