Originally Posted by MICHAELM
Before everyone gets all bent out of shape, I am curious and I am sure there is an opinion. If you take two quality frame builders say Waterford and Litespeed, build a frame with the exact geometry, just how close would the two rides be? I am a steel believer; but, I also the know the disadvantages like rust and even weight. I just would like to hear opinions from those of you that have experienced both. Really though, the only way you can compare apples to apples is to have two quality builders and build a frame with their respective speciality material matched with the exact geometry.
Here's why that question cannot be answered.
When you order a frame from Waterford, you will be interviewed. You will be asked quite a few questions to help Marc Muller come up with the right design for
you. Spinner or masher? Climb standing or seated? Carry stuff on rack? Are you flexible or not? What are your goals for this bike? Height vs weight, and so on. Then he will, by carefully gauging the tubes and tweaking the angles and stays and such, deliver a frame as close to perfection for
you as possible. Let's say you let your friend ride it because he's about the same size. What does
his opinion mean? Very little. I mean, he may love the way it rides, or he may not. That doesn't mean it isn't still absolutely right for you.
I don't know if Litespeed has a custom program these days or not, but I doubt they're custom gauging tubes and the like...so even if the geometries are identical in every respect, the fact that one was built with only you in mind and the other wasn't is where the difference lies.
Rigidity, stiffness, flex....other than combative parlour talk, these things are irrelevant to the vast majority of the cyclists on this planet. Ask Richard Sachs about frame stiffness...
An excerpt from an interview he gave a few years ago to Grant Peterson of Rivendell:
GP: What are your thoughts on frame stiffness?
RS: I don't ever consider stiffness in my frame. I wouldn't even know how to define it. When people talk to me about it, I've no clue what they are talking about.
GP: What do you mean you have no clue?
RS: Well, the bike has to be forgiving and resilient so it can be ridden comfortably. I don't know what stiffness is. My notion is that when a rider feels what he thinks is a lack of it (stiffness) it's really the result of a poorly designed or constructed bike. I think the assembly methods also contribute to how the bike feels, and it's not simply the tube's gauge or cross section.
When one of the acknowledged "greatest living framebuilders" says something like that, I listen.
The bike industry lives on
hype. You
don't have to believe it. Educate yourself by listening to established masters, not to marketing departments.
