Originally Posted by Thylacine
Now, one question I have to answer specifically was by Bikewise1....
"1) Can you present evidence that prefab CF seatstays are costlier to build with in a non custom, mass produced platform?
2) Can you present evidence that their inclusion creates an end product that is lighter, stronger and more durable than the material they replace? Or to throw you a bone, has any tangible, measurable, and desirable benefit whatsoever to the end user?'
1) Yes. They're more expensive to buy, you still have to cope them, and epoxy takes time to cure. And you have to do that in a jig which costs 7 grand and is just sitting there waiting for glue to dry.
2) Carbon stays are lighter. That's all. Everything else is annecdotal. To some that's all the performance gain required and worth the cost.
Since we don't know what T, S, and G and the like pay for them in the quantites in which they buy them, and they are clearly taking advantage of the economies of scale, I still contend that CF stays are
in massed produced bikes largely a matter of convenience for the builder, not a plus for the consumer. 12 welds to 3 welds and 3 bonds? Bloody obvious. While the bonds are curing in the jig, other tasks can be done by the same people. Fewer people+higher productivity=bigger profits.
As to the "carbon stays are lighter" issue....I just got off the phone with Richard Schwinn of Waterford. He stated that in
every case, during their prototype testing, the use of a CF rear stay made the frames
heavier. Not lighter. He admitted that there were some minor damping effects with the CF stays, which is not the same as shock absorption, but that these effects, while present during frame testing, didn't seem to translate to a complete built bike. Too many variables such as tire pressure, saddle construction, and even type of bar tape. As he put it, it wasn't stronger or even lighter, so why do it? Other than consumer perception, he couldn't see a reason to add a CF seatstay to an already light bike whether it be ti or steel.
That's from a guy who has spent his life building great bikes....