TMonk

3 hrs z2 this morning, up and down the coast.

shermo

Hah, I find exactly the opposite. A noodling around ride for 6 hours doesn't get me anywhere near the TSS it 'feels' like. Perhaps that's because after those longer rides I'm feeling my neck/back/stabilizer muscles moreso than typical 'cycling' fatigue.

tetonrider

I'm speaking across a more broad range of athletes as well as in the bigger context of overall fitness (aerobic and anaerobic systems) rather than post-ride muscle soreness.

If someone is using energy to stabilize himself on the bike, I'd address that in other ways that would not be captured on a PMC. (CTL, IME, breaks down quite a bit when you try to combine multiple sports and was never intended for combining strength + aerobic activities.)

6h of noodling (different from 6h endurance or tempo) doesn't tend to do a whole lot for improving fitness, yet it is probably going to score 150-240 TSS.

shermo

Yes, I agree. What I'm 'feeling', probably doesn't directly correlate to training adaptation. However, although I realise it's not perfect, I'll occasionally look at TSS and using that as a proxy for 'expected tiredness', and it doesn't work so well for longer rides.

Early in the season my coach gives me these rides with the instruction to spin for 6 hours ("no free wheeling"), and under 200W is fine. I don't really know the idea behind it, that's what the coach is for.

hubcyclist

past few days have been z2, after a period of time where I was doing two threshold sessions a week via zwift races, decided the time is right to dial it back a little. avg 205w over 90mins today, and it's starting to feel more like upper z2, although I would highly doubt my ftp would be 275 just yet (currently 265). ctl is 76 and tsb hovering near 0

tetonrider

why not ask? your coach should be able to tell you what the goal is for a workout and why he is having you do it at that time.

the people i've interacted with who cannot or will not answer these questions... well, usually something is up.

doesn't mean they will teach you to be a coach and write a dissertation on it, but a basic explanation can often be VERY helpful in increasing athlete engagement and buy-in to a process. if an athlete doesn't buy in to a training program, it is less likely to be successful.

also, i don't know how much you weigh buy 6h of 200w is not "noodling" for most riders.

shermo

I'm happy to let someone else deal with it, which to me is the main point of having a coach. I also quite like doing 6 hour rides so I don't dispute it. I do ask about things I dislike doing, and he normally has good arguments, or is willing to modify things slightly so it better suits me while still achieving the same goal.

Perhaps noodling is not the right word. It's certainly not hard - 6hrs @ 200W works out to ~185TSS. I'm more fatigued the next day than if I'd done a 2 hour interval session. Although I'm more 'smashed' straight after the shorter ride I feel like I recover from it more quickly.

aaronmcd

I wish 6 hours of 200 got ME only 185 TSS!

globecanvas

At 365w FTP it does.

Ygduf

sounds about right

TMonk

headed down to Fiesta for an FTP test.

topflightpro

Training ride didn't go well this morning. I didn't sleep well last night due in large part to a sore throat/possible ear infection.

I'm not sure what is going on, but in the last three weeks, I've dealt with Pink Eye and now an ear infection. It's like I'm a four year old. I'm guessing it is related to travel, since I got sick after flying out to California three weeks ago, and this past weekend I flew to New York.

That said, I'm feeling better now, though I still have a slight cough and congestion. I'm hoping to get my training back on track this week and weekend.

Also, I gained seven pounds over the past seven days. And I'm not even hungry or eating much.

TheKillerPenguin

gonna noodle for a few hours in the customary low z2 style.

furiousferret

I've been doing very simple exercises to fix a form issue which may or may not be a problem. Do anyone else have issues with glute activation when riding?

My glutes haven't fired properly (commonly referred to as dead butt syndrome) for years. Its common in runners but I haven't seen much information relating to cycling.

I've been working on fixing it so it fires properly; which may very well be a waste of time. I've noticed that when I flex my glutes, it flexes the hamstring simultaneously; an indication that I may be 'hamstring dominant'. A motion that uses the glutes (such as squats) uses the hamstring and quads instead. One of the negative effects of this (in addition to not being mechanically efficient) is the hamstring bows you leg and pulls the hip socket up, possibly causing snapping hip (glutes pull it back, keeping it in the socket) which is an issue I have as well.

So my hope is to retrain my legs to use the glutes, and hamstrings during the correct portions of the pedal stroke will help me be more efficient.

TMonk

Crushed it, tested right around where I was mid-season, despite having a fairly lazy August. It's only up from here...

furiousferret

aaronmcd

So I estimated TSS for the past couple weeks, and I'm down to under 90 CTL now. Off to the group ride, to go really slow for a couple hours plus a few beer stops. That should be sufficient to detrain myself a bit more. One of these weeks I'll step up my game and do an actual midweek training ride.

The other group (only a handful of guys) I rode with the last couple Tuesdays does a fairly easy ride with two 8 minute climbs. Apparently there is another group the does a similar route but it's even earlier. Maybe I'll peel off after the second climb and do a couple more next week. Or continue on and hit Mt Tam for a longer climb. Gotta figure out a routine.

UmneyDurak

Did easy hour after three+ weeks off the bike.

Ygduf

Up to 26th of 17,227. First time I've broken 16 minutes. My twins were born 6 months ago today, but today is probably the happiest day of my life.

Still 178lbs as well. There's weight to lose and time to gain.

furiousferret

Felt really good today, only a slightly noticeable pain at the end. Even felt my glutes firing (which felt like I could get more power, may be a placebo). From all the changes and injuries its glaringly apparent parts of my body are going to have to be built up to handle any real volume.

scheibo

damn right. OLH PR days are the best.
i'm just happy you've starred "Bridge to Mailboxes" now

hack

that power .. much impress

shermo

Well, 360W.

Actually thinking about this more I wonder if I'm not fueling correctly during/after these longer rides. That would go a long way to explaining the high levels of residual fatigue. Eating "enough" without eating too much is one of the harder aspects of this sport, especially for those of us on the heavier side of things...

tetonrider

no lightning-bolt....didn't happen! ;-)

Wylde06

I see my physical therapist every other month or so...every time I go in, one or both of my glutes have basically stopped firing, which is related to my quads..some intense foam rolling and it more of less fixes it. What I need to do is hard to at home on my own though...so it has been a neverending cycling until I can figure it out on my own