jsk

Right, he favors a more polarized approach now. Easy stuff should be easy, hard stuff should be hard.

I would include zone 4 in there depending on the type of racing one prioritizes, but yeah. Of course you're going to accumulate time in zone 3 during group rides and races, but it shouldn't be a target in structured training.

Of course that's not to say the polarized approach is the only one that works. Some people do well the the time-crunched cyclist book which I believe advocates a fair bit of SST work (which is technically right on the high-z3/low-z4 boundary). There's more than one way to build fitness, and different folks may respond better to different approaches. I think some of that may come down to "doing what you like"; people will generally have more success sticking to a plan they prefer rather than one they don't like.

carpediemracing 

I think this is where I am.

I JRA and I race. I ride like a doggy out on a walk. I chase trucks if I'm outside (haven't trained outside for a while), indoors I chase sprint times on Zwift. Otherwise I go easy.

If you're doing hills the biggest thing you can do is lose weight. If you're already super skinny... I dunno.

revchuck 

OP - Another consideration is age. Friel has written that as one ages, one's VO2 max is affected more than one's endurance, so VO2 max training should receive proportionately more emphasis.

happybday29475

What you neglect to mention is that the training load from Z3 is substantially higher than Z2. The new thinking is essentially that Z2 + occasional Z5 brings greater adaptation than a similar training load accumulated from Z3.

gsteinb

while I think that's a possibility I do think that another perspective is that given time and wisdom it's possible that one simply finds more efficient ways of training.

grolby

That was exactly my point. Yes, you get greater adaptation from Z2, precisely because you can tolerate so much more volume. But that requires substantially more time. If you don't have the time, Z3 does the same things, faster. Maybe the effective dose of Z2 when combined with Z5 is lower than I realized. But the greater training load of Z3 was built into the argument I was making.

mattm

Fwiw an ex-pro/natl champion that mentors our team says the opposite; no matter how little time you have, z2 is still the way to go (for adaptation).

Not strictly z2 as in no z5, but when building base/endurance.

He could be totally wrong though.

grolby

Or I could be wrong. I fully admit I'm shooting from the hip, here, cause training programs where I've done lots of tempo to compensate for lower volume have worked pretty well for me. That doesn't mean it's the best, only that my experience and my admittedly incomplete understanding of current training science says it's a good method.

bryanhayes

Knickman?

Doge

Correct. In this case as it was Sunday. But I've had similar discussion with Cameron Wurf and a few other similar types from the cycling and rowing side. Wurf is special as he has done both at the top level.
Anyway current training is a bit different, but seems to be working. Not in any priority.
1 Get cardio elsewhere (rowing), but of course it is helped and used by cycling. Much more intense than possible on the bike. Zone 6
2 Get power elsewhere (gym), but of course it is helped and used by cycling. Much more intense than possible on the bike. Zone 7
3 Get endurance and form cycling. Zone 1,2,3.
4 Eat and sleep well. Zone 0.
5 Learn to race by racing. Zone 3,4,5.
6 Don't get bored as you are mixing it up. I actually think this is more a SoCal problem with 360 days you can train.

aaronmcd

I'd rather do a 4 hour zone 2 ride with 2x30 zone 4 at the hills than 3 hours straight tempo. That just sounds miserable. Anyway, I want the zone 4 in my training, and all that tempo would likely make for weak threshold efforts. Plus, where am I gonna find a 3 hour stretch of road?

topflightpro

Move out near me in the Southeast, and I can find you 6-8 hours of roads for straight tempo work.

grolby

I would never suggest anyone do three hours straight tempo.

TheKillerPenguin

I did 2hrs straight tempo this fall and it was the exercise equivalent of the Overlook Hotel. You save those shenanigans for the off season when it doesn't matter how long it takes to recover from deep psychotic trauma. 10/10 would recommend A+++++

globecanvas

Metal!


I am training very differently from last winter based on having fewer hours available to train. January was a steady diet of high tempo 2x20s, amounting to 45% of riding hours in Z3 and Z4, but only about 9 hours a week total riding. At the start of Feb I replaced two of those weekly sessions with Z5 intervals, but no endurance riding at all really except for pedaling to and from the roads where I do the intervals.

So this upcoming race season will be a decent test case for the benefits of Z2 vs Z3.

Ygduf

my 4.5 hour TT was essentially 4.5 hours of PE-tempo and I was literally near tears at the end. I was as wrecked after that effort as I was at the end of day 2 of Everest Challenge.

mike868y

wait are we talking east coast metaled or west coast metaled?

TheKillerPenguin

As much as I hate to admit it, the bay area metal scene was (is?) top notch

mattm

Yeah our metal scene deserves a medal no doubt.

globecanvas

Or just generally being told what to do.

Ygduf

thanks, guys.

Medal vs. Meddle vs. Metal vs. Mettle | Confusing Words and Homonyms | Misused Words in English

I'll try to not let your criticisms effect me.

mattm

Just petal your damn bike!

Voodoo76

Peddle

Ygduf

I'm proud of you guys for not biting on "effect".

skinnyguy

The Next Level ~ Hunter Allen Power Blog

About 3 years ago I did the above. Transformed my riding. I generally ride 9-10 hrs/wk for 3 weeks. 3hrs Threshold/TT work (this is 3 hrs actually spent at threshold). 1hr Vo2 max (12x 5min intervals). 6 hrs zn2. then do a 4-6hr rest week of only zn 2. Rest up on the days before your races. Go hard on the hard days and easy on the easy days.

Threshold and Vo2 max are more trainable zones than say your sprint. The rest of your profile will fill itself in. Maximizing your threshold and Vo2 max is top priority. It allows you to create gaps close gaps and make breakaways successful. Which is the most fun way to win. Your chances always improve when you can put the numbers in your favour.

I have won lots of METALS with this approach. Never cracked 1000w in my life. Although I do only weigh 132lbs but who's counting? Once I was told I had more strength than brains, then I rode away because I was tired of listening to that guy.