Patentcad's 10 Rules of Road Bike Riding/Racing
09-03-06, 09:01 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by pedex
if you consider a rickshaw pedaler a "cyclist" then yes absolutely, its what they do for a living, and many people who ride for a living do so more often and more of it than lots of "pro racers"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional
Another guy above says the dilineating factor is a uscf or uci license and race in the pro category, you can do one race all stinking year and lose miserably and thats a "pro"**********???? As far as the licensing issue goes, that does happen in some cities for messengers and the bike or biker gets tagged same with alot of the other forms of commercial riding. Heck we've got a guy here that races in the pro category all the time, but he makes 99.999% of his cash as a messenger, he's been doing it full time for at least 6 years that I know of, which is he?Pro racer or pro biker period. We can toss around defintions and you guys can get your lycra all in a bunch over it and it doesnt bother me a bit, its a cycling forum, people are going to be snobbish and uptight, it goes with the territory
Doesnt change anything, doesnt taint the "sport" in any way, it is what it is.
*************
@Patentcad, yes there are friggin groupies, they show up at alot of the alleycats, follow and hang out with messengers at bars and concerts, it happens. Here locally its mostly the urban starving artist types, its part of the messenger subculture. You see lots of people riding bikes setup like many of us messengers ride wearing messenger bags those are the posengers, and like rec riders they think its cool to look like a certain group of riders which ride for a living.Get your head out of your butt and get out in the world and you might learn these things. You hear about some of this stuff on the SS/fixed gear forum occasionally.
******************************
One thing I do know, those that have raced and those that have done messenger work have a bit more respect for what it means to ride for a living, maybe some of you should try it for a minute before you start dissing it, many of you wouldnt last a week.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional
Another guy above says the dilineating factor is a uscf or uci license and race in the pro category, you can do one race all stinking year and lose miserably and thats a "pro"**********???? As far as the licensing issue goes, that does happen in some cities for messengers and the bike or biker gets tagged same with alot of the other forms of commercial riding. Heck we've got a guy here that races in the pro category all the time, but he makes 99.999% of his cash as a messenger, he's been doing it full time for at least 6 years that I know of, which is he?Pro racer or pro biker period. We can toss around defintions and you guys can get your lycra all in a bunch over it and it doesnt bother me a bit, its a cycling forum, people are going to be snobbish and uptight, it goes with the territory
Doesnt change anything, doesnt taint the "sport" in any way, it is what it is.*************
@Patentcad, yes there are friggin groupies, they show up at alot of the alleycats, follow and hang out with messengers at bars and concerts, it happens. Here locally its mostly the urban starving artist types, its part of the messenger subculture. You see lots of people riding bikes setup like many of us messengers ride wearing messenger bags those are the posengers, and like rec riders they think its cool to look like a certain group of riders which ride for a living.Get your head out of your butt and get out in the world and you might learn these things. You hear about some of this stuff on the SS/fixed gear forum occasionally.
******************************
One thing I do know, those that have raced and those that have done messenger work have a bit more respect for what it means to ride for a living, maybe some of you should try it for a minute before you start dissing it, many of you wouldnt last a week.
Did you ever stop to think that you are a part of the subculture that preceded your existence. Were you born a messenger, did you carry around a bailey bag in elementary school. Get over yourself, your style was informed by messengers who came before you who worked out functional, utilitarian ways of dressing for a combo of cycling, running, and late night drinking. Those people are not groupies, do you perform for them, do they pay an entrance fee? Maybe they just happen to know the cheap bar to drink at too. They are your friends, though I doubt many would think so if they heard themselves referred to as groupies. Are folks that go on an artwalk art groupies? Your self importance is laughable and only a poser of a messenger would refer to other riders as a posenger. Most delivery companies will hire anyone with a pulse, a bike, and the most basic of mapreading skills.
I really think it's you and not Patentcad who needs to pull the head out of the butt. You are either a rookie who is taking this way too seriously, or an experienced messenger who is taking this way too seriously. You may think you're cool now, but I hope you have another dream, because there isn't much sadder than a 40 year old messenger with a chip on their shoulder.
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Non semper erit aestas.
Non semper erit aestas.
09-03-06, 12:34 PM
#27
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
talks about himself in the third person...
"Patentcad's going for a ride..."
"Patentcad really likes his Six/13..."
"Patentcad needs to post on Bikeforums today..."
"Patentcad's going for a ride..."
"Patentcad really likes his Six/13..."
"Patentcad needs to post on Bikeforums today..."
Patentcad thanks you.
Patentcad was feeling good today on the he-man Sunday ride, but flatted about 20 miles from the end. Damn. Where's the team car when you need it? Wait, there IS no team car. All there was was a spare tube, a CO2 cartridge and an hour solo ride back to the shop. Oh well.
But in keeping with Rule #10, I did walk away from this ride, so it was successful. Didn't walk away from every ride in 2005...
09-03-06, 06:05 PM
#28
Recovering Retro-grouch
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Originally Posted by Starclimber
I think it's 'better' to ride like a pro than to live like a pro.
09-03-06, 06:59 PM
#29
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someone needs to keep their perspectives in check. When does being a bike messenger makes you a professional cyclist??? 
For what we know that person may not even be a cat5 racer, let along racing against over 100 riders in a 100 miles race with over couple of thoursands feet of climbing. Throw in cobbles and the worst weather condition you can think of. Someone needs to get a clue. In addition having the physical fitness to race as a pro, professional cyclists are also being paid to WIN. To WIN races with over 100 riders with similar physical fitness. Tell me, bike messengers, do you get paid to WIN. Do you get paid to ride for a team? You get paid to delivery packages from point a to point b, over a dozen times a day.
Not many of us are brought up to follow a set rule of life. Many of us are free to explore the world and ourselves. I don't see anything wrong with being a professiona cyclist with another full time job.
For what we know that person may not even be a cat5 racer, let along racing against over 100 riders in a 100 miles race with over couple of thoursands feet of climbing. Throw in cobbles and the worst weather condition you can think of. Someone needs to get a clue. In addition having the physical fitness to race as a pro, professional cyclists are also being paid to WIN. To WIN races with over 100 riders with similar physical fitness. Tell me, bike messengers, do you get paid to WIN. Do you get paid to ride for a team? You get paid to delivery packages from point a to point b, over a dozen times a day. Not many of us are brought up to follow a set rule of life. Many of us are free to explore the world and ourselves. I don't see anything wrong with being a professiona cyclist with another full time job.
09-03-06, 07:48 PM
#30
Used to be a climber..
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Originally Posted by patentcad
You're (the correct spelling in this context by the way) a bike messenger. Please don't confuse this with 'pro'. Because 99.99% of anyone reading that claim will think you're a pro RACER. And again, it's far more crucial to LOOK like a pro than to ride like a pro. A pro racer, not a pro bike messenger. Anyone here trying to emulate bike messengers? In the NY City food chain they're one notch below road kill, with a similar survival rate.
What could possibly be more incessantly poseur than somebody who keeps posting here that he's a 'pro cyclist' - and he's a BIKE MESSENGER. That's like Bin Laden claiming he's a 'freedom fighter'. Besides, what gives you the notion that emulating pros makes anyone a pro wannabe? That's your idea. By that standard any amateur who takes his sport seriously enough to do it right (cyclists,golfers, runners, bowlers, softball players, etc.) is a 'wannabe'. I know plenty of amateur cyclists (and some VERY good ones) who take their riding cues from the pros. Whatever.
What could possibly be more incessantly poseur than somebody who keeps posting here that he's a 'pro cyclist' - and he's a BIKE MESSENGER. That's like Bin Laden claiming he's a 'freedom fighter'. Besides, what gives you the notion that emulating pros makes anyone a pro wannabe? That's your idea. By that standard any amateur who takes his sport seriously enough to do it right (cyclists,golfers, runners, bowlers, softball players, etc.) is a 'wannabe'. I know plenty of amateur cyclists (and some VERY good ones) who take their riding cues from the pros. Whatever.
Originally Posted by pedex
No, YOUR an amateur, im a pro, I ride for a living, and I too make more than most pro racers, big friggin deal. But please, dont dress like a posenger. You aint pro, dont even try to dress like one.
09-04-06, 10:36 AM
#31
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
>>this would be almost the equivalent of a UPS driver showing up at a WRC event <<
Actually, guaging from the driving of the local UPS drivers in my area - they might be faster than the WRC pros : ).
Actually, guaging from the driving of the local UPS drivers in my area - they might be faster than the WRC pros : ).
09-04-06, 11:20 AM
#32
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I was a pro driver back in high school--I valet parked cars. 
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"Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."
"Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."
09-04-06, 11:41 AM
#34
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
I was a pro dishwasher in college. I washed dishes in a restaurant.
09-07-06, 03:01 PM
#36
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I'd like to add #2.5: It's never too early to be dropped.
09-07-06, 05:09 PM
#37
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...
Originally Posted by pedex
No, YOUR an amateur, im a pro, I ride for a living, and I too make more than most pro racers, big friggin deal. But please, dont dress like a posenger. You aint pro, dont even try to dress like one.
09-07-06, 08:24 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by patentcad
I was a pro dishwasher in college. I washed dishes in a restaurant.
Btw, from where I'm from there are things called "Becak", google it!
09-07-06, 08:37 PM
#39
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Ummmmm.....I'm not a pro, but I'd dress like one if I could spend the cash for the gear and I'd sure as heck ride one of the bikes if I was fortunate enough to own one. Hell, my bike cost less than the powertap on their back rim.
Either way, I ride for me. I don't care what people think, I don't care who's faster, who's slower, or who looks better. But hey, yeah, call me a pro wanna be. I'd love to be that good.
Either way, I ride for me. I don't care what people think, I don't care who's faster, who's slower, or who looks better. But hey, yeah, call me a pro wanna be. I'd love to be that good.
Last edited by Nashville Man; 09-07-06 at 08:44 PM.
09-08-06, 09:27 AM
#40
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ryanrasband
Yes you do care. Everyone wants to be faster.
But the KEY is being happy with your cycling regardless of how fast you ever get. Which brings us to:
#3 - There is always somebody faster than you.
Always. Accordingly does it ultimately does it matter how fast you get? Not really. What matters is how HAPPY cycling makes you. It makes me very happy. And I hope everyone else here feels the same way.
If not, start re-thinking the whole deal.
09-08-06, 09:37 AM
#41
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Actually, bike messengers aren't pro cyclists. They're pro package deliverers. If you showed up to pick up your package, and got where you needed to go by rollerblade in the requisite amount of time, noone would care. If you delivered your packages by personal jetpack, the clients wouldn't care.
You choose to ride a bike in order to do your job. It's the most sensible way to do it, but you're not being paid to ride, you're being paid to deliver packages.
Pro cyclists, in the context that 9x% of the people here refer to them, are professional racers, paid to ride their bike. This is especially true in the road bike racing forum.
It's not like Patentcad dropped in on the fixie forum and started slagging messengers or anything. You're the one popping into the road bike racing forum and telling people they're using their common language incorrectly, which IMO, makes you look quite.... silly.
You choose to ride a bike in order to do your job. It's the most sensible way to do it, but you're not being paid to ride, you're being paid to deliver packages.
Pro cyclists, in the context that 9x% of the people here refer to them, are professional racers, paid to ride their bike. This is especially true in the road bike racing forum.
It's not like Patentcad dropped in on the fixie forum and started slagging messengers or anything. You're the one popping into the road bike racing forum and telling people they're using their common language incorrectly, which IMO, makes you look quite.... silly.
09-08-06, 11:00 AM
#42
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
The choice of bike messenger for a career is curious. Everyone I know who ever did it - did so in their adventurous youth - and thought better of it when living past age 30 became a priority. It's not exactly a risk free profession. At least it's not here in NY City....
09-08-06, 11:25 AM
#43
Banned
Where else can you ride a bike and make $1k + a week and be your own boss? Ive already got a guy working for me with plans for several more. Its a business and a way of life. Its a very tough way to make a living for most because they dont work hard enough at it or dont have the skills to do well, Ive seen more than 150 rookies come and go in 5 years, some would do well if given the chance, unfortunately neither Rainbow Express nor Archive Courier inc(2 biggest local messenger businesses) are so inclined to let that happen, which is also quite typical. Usually those that run courier businesses arent couriers, and if they have been few were any good at it. Not a single owner of any of the big companies here was worth a damn as a courier, and most couldnt be mesengers if they wanted to, unless they lose 200lbs+ first. I know many of these guys personally, hard not to in this business, and most did exactly what I did, leave one company and start your own and take some of their clients with you, or buy an existing business and go from there. So far though only 7 have been able to leave and do a start up and survive the first year as messengers(no car drivers), many have tried and failed. Way more to it than just slinging packages, especially if you get into process serving and legal work. Right now I service more than 50 attorneys scattered across 9 law firms and im about to take on another 22 attorneys all in one company, its actually a job that requires lots of responsibility and being able to juggle lots of things at once. Riding is just a part of it, but if you cant ride worth a damn then you wont get much done either.
09-08-06, 11:34 AM
#45
Scum, Freezebag!
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Echoing what Jinker said: riding a bike isn't your job. Delivering your packages is your job. One facilitates the other, but it's not what you're paid to do.
09-08-06, 11:45 AM
#46
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When I first started racing I was easily intimidated. I’d size guys up at the line before we started and there’d always be a few that looked good, real good. They had the full kit, sunglasses, matching helmet, perfectly tanned and shaved legs. Everything. I was scared. Here I am, this scrawny little b!tch, how can I beat that?
Sometimes they’d be good, worthy of my fears, but often enough they didn’t amount to much at all. Little by little I’d line up and see guys kitted out and I’d say to myself, “yeah, let’s see you ride, punk.”
My friend Pattycakes likes leather boys. He says leather boys scare straight people because they look so macho and intimidating but when you buy one a drink and start talking they invariably say something like; “have you seen ‘Wicked’ it’s fabulous.” Heavy on the sibilance.
Smoke and mirrors.
They guys to watch out for are the ones that show up week after week wearing the same, three year old team jersey, maybe with a scruf or tear on the shoulder. When they line up I say to myself, “now that’s the wheel to follow.”
Sometimes they’d be good, worthy of my fears, but often enough they didn’t amount to much at all. Little by little I’d line up and see guys kitted out and I’d say to myself, “yeah, let’s see you ride, punk.”
My friend Pattycakes likes leather boys. He says leather boys scare straight people because they look so macho and intimidating but when you buy one a drink and start talking they invariably say something like; “have you seen ‘Wicked’ it’s fabulous.” Heavy on the sibilance.
Smoke and mirrors.
They guys to watch out for are the ones that show up week after week wearing the same, three year old team jersey, maybe with a scruf or tear on the shoulder. When they line up I say to myself, “now that’s the wheel to follow.”
09-08-06, 12:06 PM
#47
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
In bike racing you really can't judge talent speed based on how a guy looks. Floyd Landis doesn't particularly LOOK very impressive to me. He wouldn't scare me at a USCF starting line. Shows how much that's worth, eh?
Sometimes the pencil legged geek CRUSHES the field.
Sometimes the pencil legged geek CRUSHES the field.
09-08-06, 12:26 PM
#48
so whatcha' want?
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Originally Posted by patentcad
I never talk about myself in the third person. But Patentcad will start doing so immediately.
Patentcad thanks you.
Patentcad thanks you.
ala "can you s-s-s-smell what The Rock is cookin'.."
lol
09-08-06, 12:27 PM
#49
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Floyd used to show up to races wearing funky outfits, crazy socks etc. No one took him seriously. He beat most fields in those races by scores of minutes. I bet they thought differently of him after he obliterated the entire field.
09-08-06, 02:58 PM
#50
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blah blah blah yada yada yada ever hear of a paragraph?
Originally Posted by pedex
Where else can you ride a bike and make $1k + a week and be your own boss? Ive already got a guy working for me with plans for several more. Its a business and a way of life. Its a very tough way to make a living for most because they dont work hard enough at it or dont have the skills to do well, Ive seen more than 150 rookies come and go in 5 years, some would do well if given the chance, unfortunately neither Rainbow Express nor Archive Courier inc(2 biggest local messenger businesses) are so inclined to let that happen, which is also quite typical. Usually those that run courier businesses arent couriers, and if they have been few were any good at it. Not a single owner of any of the big companies here was worth a damn as a courier, and most couldnt be mesengers if they wanted to, unless they lose 200lbs+ first. I know many of these guys personally, hard not to in this business, and most did exactly what I did, leave one company and start your own and take some of their clients with you, or buy an existing business and go from there. So far though only 7 have been able to leave and do a start up and survive the first year as messengers(no car drivers), many have tried and failed. Way more to it than just slinging packages, especially if you get into process serving and legal work. Right now I service more than 50 attorneys scattered across 9 law firms and im about to take on another 22 attorneys all in one company, its actually a job that requires lots of responsibility and being able to juggle lots of things at once. Riding is just a part of it, but if you cant ride worth a damn then you wont get much done either.