zimbo

I haven't ever looked at wattage during a race (TTs excluded), but I like having the record of what happened. I think it has helped me race smarter--but I can't prove that.

--Steve

UT_Dude

My coach assigns workouts by wattage targets (generally), which have generally been increasing. Every race I do, though, is more of a "real" maximal test -- I find out what I can really do under pressure, then we can increase the training load. Something to that effect.

UT_Dude

I guess the point of this is.... I'm really good about staying dead on my pacing during TT's, and use the SRM for that. I don't really use it so much in RR's or Crits, but I also don't ever really look at it then. Because of that, there's no reason to NOT put it on the bike. The weight penalty is almost nothing (and i'd be using the cranks anyways), and it's very useful data for the above posted reason.

DrPete 

I guess I'm in a different boat. I've been able to hit higher numbers in training because the training rides are more targeted. It makes sense that my 5-second power will be higher in a sprint workout than it will be at the end of a mass start race.

UT_Dude

That's true I suppose, but all of my best sprints have been in races.

The stuff i'm better at (5 min and longer efforts...i'm mostly a TT rider if you haven't figured that out) is stuff that i'm going to get better measurements out of races.

jrmohan

Man............ I'm mad, at least you all have the opportunity to worry about what you do or do not do or have or don't have on your bikes during a race. I would kill for an active racing scene near me. All races around me are on average 3-4 hours away.

UT_Dude

Uh.... Austin is 3 hours from Dallas, 3 hours from Houston, and there aren't a whole lot of races in Austin.

Just do it.

jrmohan

No car, No licesne= parents would need to drive= no go

UT_Dude

Gotcha

Alternatively, you could take my route and get a job, then buy your own car, your own college education, and your own bike. Not quite as much fun, but you end up with more schwag in the end.

jrmohan

True, maybe when I'm old enough to have my own car and drivers license.

jrennie

DrPete- By looking at the numbers after it allows me to see how much energy is used riding near the front and out of the wind or near the front and still being exposed(like outside line and cross wind). I though they felt like the same amount of effort but were very different.

'nother

A couple of other ideas for using race data, as put forth by Coggan and Allen (haven't been able to use these yet, but for the sake of edification)

- determine when you are using too much energy (pedaling when you should have been sitting in)

- used energy unnecessarily in parts of the race that were not decisive (made a tactical error but didn't realize it)



They also say that "often your best data will come from races, as you always go harder in races than in routine training", which I think is an important point. If you are not using your power meter during a race, you do not know whether you are performing at your potential. True, the race result is the only thing that really matters, and if you're winning races while still performing below your potential, then hats off to you. But if you are not winning/not upgrading, and not performing at your potential during races, something's wrong.

DrWJODonnell

Dr. Pete, without seeing your data, I can tell you this - you have already learned quite valuable info - you are wasting too much energy in races. You are able to hit higher numbers in training because you are fresh, but towards the end of a workout, your sprint numbers will drop. How much lower are your sprint numbers in a race? If they are a lot lower, perhaps you need to either work on conserving energy in a race, or tiring yourself out more in training. Regardless, having the obvious difference IS important if you use it to make yourself better.

What does power tell me in a race? Well, during the race it tells me how not to blow up in a paceline (because I know what I cannot reasonably do from training). It also tells me when I am fried (for instance, dehydrated, need a gu or something when 280 watts feels like 450).

In hindsight I can compare what my RPE was (I was dying in the break but my norm power was 320 watts...Need to work on that) or I can see that though I thought I was conserving enerfy, the fact was, I was going too hard (need to back off even MORE next time). Also, many times, it tells me the important stuff. What can I expect to do at the end of a race? Sure I can pop off 700 + watts for a minute if I am fresh in a workout, but the fact is, at the end of 2 hours of racing, a 570 watt effort is going to be about it. If I know that I can do that for a minute and others look lik ethey are suffering at 350 watts, I know I can solo break away about a minute out for the easy victory.

Finally, in examining the file, I know how stupid I was. How many matches did I burn unnecessarily? How many attacks was I capable of before the attack power just was not there? Knowing this for me helps me plan future races. I am sorry, but a five pound penalty I would gladly take for that kind of info.

NomadVW 

Since most of my race scene is with a large portion of the same competitors (which I imagine is the truth for a lot of us), I also know what I had to do to "stick with them" on such and such climb, or keep the paceline, stay away, or break away.

My best example:
I'm able to look at my race data from my May 20th 1st placing and see what we were climbing at for ~6 min of climbing for 9 laps/ How did the pace change from lap to lap (mid laps way low @ 300-305 for 6 minutes, but last lap was 370 for 5 1/2 minutes). Then how much it took to break away and then stay away on the last lap. (20 sec @ 600 to bridge, 35 sec @ 490 to drop the bridged rider, and 327 for 5 min to stay away, a paltry amount really but mostly descending hairpin turns to an uphill finish).

I may/may not do another race on this course at the end of September. I'll be pretty happy to have this data if I do though because come end of August I'll be on the course training for the race and be able to replicate the general course requirements accurately.

Really, having the power meter on is all about post-race analysis. I'm excited to have a second wheelset that is slightly lighter now that mentally, weight really isn't an issue. It's not some uber-light wheelset, but it's lighter than what I had so the placebo effect will work its magic.

If you're losing races by less than a bike throw, maybe weight/aerodynamics is an issue. I've yet to be in to win/lose based on that distance so I know weight (on the bike) is not my problem (something about a 5 second sprint close to that of a sloth might be that problem). And I can just about piss away more weight than the difference in a set of wheels (or this time sweat it off by the end of the race).

ElJamoquio

Now it's my turn to *NOT* be a smartass: Then perhaps you're doing your sprint workouts wrong?

If your mass start sprints are more gradual, or just longer, perhaps you should emulate that in training?

Just a thought.

DrPete 

But once you've discovered that in a training race or on a group ride, is it necessary to re-learn this on race day?

DrPete 

No, my mass start sprints are neither long enough nor explosive enough, and it has more to do with my endurance at/above LT than with my actual sprint power. I have a good sprint in me but I lack the anaerobic endurance to bring it to the end of a race. That's not something that I need to re-learn on race days either.

VT to CA

Funny that no one has talked about how this translates into team duties/race stages... you're lead TT, take every edge, so no PT. My slow skinny ass sometimes rides one though (aero-shielded). I'm 5 back, baby-birded and chugging anyway- the training potential makes me more of an asset than a few less seconds do.

On the other hand, I am not putting a damn thing extra on my bike when hills are on the plate, as I have the unfortunate responsibilty of towing the climbs... and our TT specialist might be more of an asset if he's getting the maximum future benefits from the climbs with a PT rather than being negligibly quicker up the mountain.

For college, where specialty duties are a little more loosely orchestrated, and every race should be looked at as a learning experience anyway, I tend to agree with UT Dude... if you're not distracted by it, it's a good way to get realer numbers than training can afford...

I for one find a little "extra" on race day that isn't normally there during training sessions- it's the next step of that potential which must be trained for.

DrPete 

This has actually been helpful/educational. I still don't think I'll use the PT for my higher-priority races, but I might keep it on a bit more often.

I'll freely admit that really going over my files with a fine-toothed comb is a big shortcoming with my use of the PT so far, as I've already mentioned. So I guess as I become more savvy I'll have an excuse to pick up a PT SL/404 tubular wheel.

'nother

Now you're talkin'

UT_Dude

Hahaha.... Option 2: Sell your old PT wheel, and pick up an SRM on eBay or Slowtwitch for like... $1400.

garysol1 

Funny thing....I just held my Mavic ES wheel fully dressed with cassette and tire and my PT wheel also fully dressed and I had a hard time feeling a weight difference. The PT is back on the bike for this weekend's Omnium. Thanks for all the GREAT replies guys.

DrPete 

I had a similar thing when I still had my Fulcrums. Just buy some Zipps and you'll feel a big difference.

bodaciousguy

please do not use your PT to pace yourself in breakaways or TTs. I choke every time someone says something like this. Watching power fluctuate is such a distraction from what you should be concentratin on: going hard.

VT to CA

I don't think anybody's talking about watching real-time data (at least I really hope they aren't).

They just want to have a log of their race performance to break down later and study for training.