Creatre

Noooo, don't do the century. I don't want to get passed by a Fatty! That would be a humiliating way to end the year!

I'll be attempting the front group. I don't expect to stay with the leaders through the first climb though with only a 4.3w/kg FTP atm. I do expect a top-10 hopefully though, depends on who all shows up.

jwible

Check Brian Toone's Strava file of Six Gap. That's the lead group and then some. Yowey Zowey.

gsteinb

recovery day

Fat Boy

Good weekend. Hard ride on Saturday and an easier starvation ride on Sunday morning. Something like 6+ hours between the 2 days, which is good for me.

Last day I get to ride because of a work trip for the next 3 days. I'm going to try to do something that burns me down so I can use the off time to recover. Probably be a kettlebell involved in there somewhere.

rkwaki

I'll pass you while eating a hamburger and cheese fries.

jsutkeepspining

shut up fatty!

rkwaki

Good post.

TMonk

my head hurtz.

fortunately im staying very busy at work so time shoudl pass and i dont get to sit and think about how i feel like carp

grolby

I will outline my Six Gap plan more specifically for you and anyone else who plans on going and blowing it up out there: F you. F you ALL. I'm riding on 39 teeth of BITE ME. All you poor bastards are going to suffering your way up Hogpen, cursing the day you were born, and I'll be just cruising it in for fun. Ha!

shovelhd

That's sig worthy.

jwible

I might ride 6 Gap in a 56x21 after today's ride.

Lap 1 (0:42:18.97):
Duration: 48:23 (59:39)
Work: 422 kJ
TSS: 61.8 (intensity factor 0.903)
Norm Power: 248
VI: 1.68
Pw:HR: 20.52%
Pa:HR: -37.41%
Distance: 7.436 mi
Elevation Gain: 550 ft
Elevation Loss: 521 ft
Grade: 0.1 % (27 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 2884 148 watts
Heart Rate: 117 181 163 bpm
Cadence: 30 201 90 rpm
Speed: 0 71.8 9.2 mph
Pace 0:50 0:00 6:31 min/mi
Altitude: 815 950 880 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1469 144 lb-in



I think the PT might be in for a service. But I'll hook up a speed sensor first to rule out the possibility of the GPS speed being a factor. The custom wheel setting on the 705 decided I was riding a wheel with an 858mm circumference while in the woods.

rkwaki

I will laugh in the face of such adversity for two reasons:

1. If I don't get dropped over the 11,000 feet of climbing I can call all those guys pu$$ies as I am fat
2. Because I am a fatty I can use that as an excuse for getting dropped

WIN-WIN for me

johnybutts

I am riding today. First day back from injury. Gonna aim for 1.5 hrs.

AzTallRider

My weekend computer access was limited, so pardon me for jumping in late on the weight loss/nutrition discussion. I'm doing so because there is one area where I see some disagreement between people whose opinions I respect, and I'd love to reconcile that. This stuff isn't easy to figure out. Not for me anyway. And it clearly is a huge factor.

First, my exerience is that I lost 40 pounds when I started to race, and most of that was over a 6-9 month period. The key for me was really "eating to train", with a focus on reducing the carbs and pumping up the protein and fat. Not that dramatically - I just 'leaned towards the protein' and stopped eating what I call "hollow carbs". I tracked everything I ate, along with my training, on TrainingPeaks. I put myself in 'fat-burning mode' with lots of z2 and z3. The fat just melted off, and I now hover right around what I consider my ideal weight. If I'm not doing the base, my weight creeps up a couple of pounds, but that's it.

I can now tell when my body is really in that mode - burning fat at levels of exertion where, when not in that mode, I'm burning carbs. Since then, I've listened to an exercise physiologist (works with our team) who focuses a LOT on "metabolic efficiency". He wants you to be burning fat as much as possible. Yes it requires more O2, but he believes that creating the requirement for that O2 gets your body to adapt by increasing your O2 burning capacity. He likes lots of z2-3, and withholds 'structured training' as he calls it, until you have the desired metabolic efficiancy, as demonstrated with a test showing a metabolic equivalency point, where your fat and carn burning is equal, at a realtively high HR.

I don't think any of this conflicts with what people are saying. You need protein to build muscle. Muscle helps burn fat. z2-3 burns fat, and you can do that without needed to eat. Avoid depleting your glucose (to the extent you can) when exerting yourself more, and replenish your protein immediately after a hard effort, so it's there when your cells are being rebuilt. All good.

My question is this: Absent a need to lose weight, just how important is that metabolic efficiency? That fat burning capability? In most races, you are going to cross over into carb-land, probably pretty soon, and stay there. Is the ability to be using that fat when recovering the pack, or at other low effort times, worth it? Plus, there is a growing consensus that you can improve your endurance with HIIT, but you can't get that metabolic efficiency without the long hours of z2-3. Hard to do both, especially during the racing season.

waterrockets 

From what I know, it's worth it. Crossing over into carb-land doesn't mean your body skips fat burning. It just means that it needs more. It's still energy you can and will use.

grolby

I don't think that metabolic efficiency has to do with the relative contribution of fat vs. glycogen stores to power output.

I don't know exactly what to think about this idea of training one's body to burn more fat in vs. carbs. I have to admit to a certain amount of skepticism about the idea. But I can tell you this for sure: the more I ride, especially at Z2 and Z3 levels of effort, the longer I am able to go without feeding. What I mean is, when I've been doing very little training, I have to be very careful to avoid a bonk. After an extended period of time with lots of training miles, I need to worry much less about running my tank to empty. Whatever the mechanism, endurance training noticeably increases my resistance to bonking. It doesn't take any special effort to avoid taking in carbs to produce this effect. Everyone is different, but if simply riding base miles will improve your ability to go longer on a given amount of calories, deliberately going semi-starved on rides could be counter-productive.

Enthalpic

Yes and no. When going from low to medium intensity you are right, but there is a "fatmax" point right around SST where further intensity actually reduces fatty acid oxidation.

It is at these medium-high intensities where people get confused. You burn more calories and a lot more carbohyrdates but actually less fatty acids during the workout. However, when your bodies stores of carbohydrate are relatively low (near bonked, exercise in fasted state, low carb diet) your body shifts it`s substrate utilization towards fat so when you include the exercise and recovery windows together it averages out quite a bit. So a lot of workouts can improve your ability to burn fat, even threshold rides, provided you don`t eat silly amounts of carbohydrates. Only the combination of very high intensity, very high carb diet will fail to improve fatmax (as a %VO2max) much, but if VO2max improves...

Enthalpic

You are right, efficiency has to do with work per calorie. The substrate that the calorie came from is a different issue.

caloso

Did 15" on, 15" off intervals. https://blog.trainingpeaks.com/posts/...intervals.html

Pretty pleased with the effort.

JohnKScott

Nice!

rkwaki

Couldn't pick a better week for a rest week, yucky and rainy.

billh92109

In reference to the above discussion on carbs/ metabolic efficiency - I am pretty sure it also works the other way around, i.e. that if you are used to a high fat low carb diet your endurance comes easier. I have been eating that way for 5 years for medical reasons, and I have always been able to do a 100 miles with no training up for it. I wouldn't call it 'fun' , as I can barely hold my head up and the seat is ripping me a new one by then but I have always been able to just crank one out, usually with no food at all or just a single coke or something. Sure I lose alot of power after about the 2/3 mark but I can cruise forever at 130-145 bpm... Just anecdotal evidence of course.

AzTallRider

Thanks for the input Enthalpic - much appreciated.

jsutkeepspining

i should be starting an ftp build block soon. hopefully will be able to get two of these in before i take some time off and then start base up.

AzTallRider

According to the same physiologist, your body will tend to use what you are putting into it at any given time. Feed it fat, and it will use that fat. Feed it carbs, and it will use those.