Crash716

i don't know...i was actually doing better at the 3 man group than the 6 man group. basically i think part of it was my guy was leaving out in the wind a lot, maybe it was me just hurting but we were averaging about 25 and i was consistantly having to go over 27 to get around his wheel. basically i am burning too many matches as i think my FTP is just too low for that kind of an effort.

I can't put in the time to get my FTP up, like you i got about 6-10 hours a week if i am lucky. I feel fine in crits as long as i keep my nose out of the wind. I got about 2-3 matches right now if i am lucky. I just can't spend much time into a 10k head wind at 27mph right now.

ZeCanon

If the guy in front of you isn't slowing, just yell at him. No room for ego in TTT, it just slows everyone down.

There is a threshold at which doing a constant rotation is faster, that threshold is often more than 6 people. You might want to try a classic paceline, 15-30s pulls one man at a time.

caloso

Slept in this morning, easy commute, saving my legs for a big morning tomorrow.

slim_77

2:20 on the trainer. Good SST workout today: 42 min @ 90%, 5 min easy L1-2, followed by another 20 min @ 96%. L2-3 for the remainder.

I noticed that I am far more uncomfortable at a lower cadence. Today I was pedaling around 88-90 rpm, and I felt edgy. The other day I did a 20 min test where I was pushing around 93 rpms--it hurt, but I was far more comfortable in that pain cave. Perhaps that is why I suck at climbing (that and I live in the midwest).

I see lots of low cadence work in my future.

mike868y

Just shy of 2' of tempo on the road. Great ride. Beautiful weather and a great little loop (one of my favorites). Lots of short punchy climbs, perfect training for Battenkill. Everything just felt right today. Legs felt good, position felt comfy, and the weather was great.

One of those days that reminds me of why I ride.

Out-The-Back

I don't understand your post. Low cadence work to improve power, or low cadence work to improve efficiency? I try to average around 95-100 day to day and average about 105 race and I'm trying to up those averages for efficiency. Climbing I try to do 90-95 if gearing allows. Isn't a higher cadence better?

substructure

3 hours today. 2 hours tempo with the team. Cold got colder today and I cracked from lack of food in my system.

El Diablo Rojo

Rollers today..Saving Private Ryan..not the best choice for roller watching...man there are some really sad moments in the film.

2h 5m
10min warm up 40min high tempo 2x20x5 40min of high tempo cool down.

badhat

i watched the entire 6 season run of the Sopranos while running on a treadmill.

rewatched recently and surprised by how much i missed the first time.

treadmill/rollers are definitely better suited to brainless episodic stuff like 24 and the Shield than stuff with nuance and detail...

badhat

also comedy is really bad. nothing breaks concentration/effort like belly laughing

slim_77

This is the first time I really noticed this discomfort because I'm fairly new to training with power. To your last question--not really. Cadence is a personal thing, like a saddle. Look at Armstrong and Jan Ullrich in a TT.

What I was referring to was a personal weakness, I'm simply less efficient (and probably quicker to fatigue) at a lower cadence because I'm uncomfortable below "x" rpm. Or at least I was today, doing more lower cadence/climbing drills will help really pin it down. Either way, it can be worked on.

then again, I don't know **** about anything, so my assumptions are probably wrong.

ldesfor1@ithaca

teh suck for me too:

crappy enduro ride::
Duration: 3:08:18
Work: 2701 kJ
TSS: 149 (intensity factor 0.691)
Norm Power: 249
VI: 1.03
Pw:HR: n/a
Pa:HR: n/a
Distance: 56.193 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 452 241 watts
Cadence: 29 141 85 rpm
Speed: 0 36.8 18.0 mph
Pace 1:38 0:00 3:20 min/mi
Hub Torque: 0 619 99 lb-in
Crank Torque: 0 1177 252 lb-in

ldesfor1@ithaca

slow death.

kudude

5x5' today. was supposed to be 6x5', but I ran out of hill (and let's be honest - motivation)

302W = 108%
301W = 108%
295W = 105%
301W = 108%
298W = 106%

kept moving around for awhile, 100', 117TSS

ZeCanon

Take note folks, that's how it's done...

Done 2.5 hrs with the B's and C's, teaching them how to paceline. Winds picked up for the last 1.5 hrs or so, probably 20mph straight out of the west (direct crosswind). Made them learn quick

I had the newest group (we split up the 15 or so guys amongst a couple A's), guys that have never really ridden in a group before. They need work on just drafting, rotating was a bit too much. So I just pulled them around for an hour. I'm really liking how nice and easy 260-270w (4.2w/kg) feels right now.

hammy56

Today was the first time Ive done any anaerobic work in a while.

Started with 40 min of tempo.

Then did 5x2.

Then did some drooling.

Out-The-Back

Nice work! I haven't gotten my training totally lined out yet, but that'll definitely be a good goal for me. How long of a recovery time between intervals?

Took the wife for a 2.5 hour ride tonight, she did really well tonight...I was very proud of her! At the end I did another .2 mile sprint (I love these) at my routine spot. Managed 3 shifts instead of 2 and gained .7mph on the average with slightly less average wattage (1029 vs. 1048), fun day! Tomorrow I'm putting the group ride in the pain locker! 90ish miles and 6k total of climbing and I'm feeling good tonight!

bostongarden

Off yesterday, off today.

kudude

60 seconds (as prescribed by others) ... although there was one 1:20 in there when I was going downhill and turning around

procrit

rest day. 5 hours planned this weekend.

Out-The-Back

Thanks, just saw your "target workouts" thread and saw the 60 seconds...great thread, lots of reading to do. Can't wait to get my formal training plan together and implimented.

ldesfor1@ithaca

nice thing about these new-to-me 3-4 hour strict z2 rides is that they tend to feel like teh suck when doing them, they dont leave me feeling beat up the next day.
So, after a nice 2 day block th,fri. today is off the bike. maybe a lift. tons of coffee to get me through work and some stretching.

tomorrow is monster ride day. 250 tss is the goal... 4 hours+

Out-The-Back

Funny you use Lance Armstrong as an example.

Quote from Friel..

"Economy is defined as how much effort you use when pedaling at a given power output. The goal is to make quick movements with little wasted energy. By improving your economy you can go faster using the same effort. This is the ability I call "speed skills"-one of the critical corners of the training triad.

As with force, speed skills training progresses from general to the specific. The goal for this ability is to pedal comfortably (in other words, with a lower energy expenditure) at a higher cadence than you are now capable of doing. Several scientific studies have demonstrated that leg turnover is trainable, given the right types of workouts and consistancy of purpose. Such training starts with drills (general) and slowly moves toward riding with a higher cadence than you currently employ (specific).

An easy way to determine how economically you pedal is to simply see what the highest cadence is that you can maintain for several minutes in a low gear. Lance Armstrong proved to be a master at this during his Tour de France victory years, when he raced time trials at a remarkably high 110 to 120 rpm. When he first came onto the world cycling stage in the early 1990s, he was a "masher," turning the cranks at 80 to 90 rpm. By the late 1990s he had completely overhauled his pedaling mechanics to be much more economical-and more competetive as a result."

So I don't think "cadence is a personal thing, like a saddle". ;-) I'd say it's not a personal weakness, you are less efficient at lower RPMs. Then there is all the stuff about slow twitch muscle fiber recruitment....but I too don't know what I'm talking about so I'm not going to get very technical;-)

BTW, not being a smart ass, I'm reading a lot of this stuff right now and by reading and discussing others input I am able to put it to use and thus gain a better perspective and understanding.

Enthalpic

Think about this some more.

waterrockets 

Today I did a fast group ride with EDR and another teammate (J). I'd never been on this ride before, and it was pretty fun. Awkward moment: EDR rolls off the front, J and I are wanting to get moving, but not chase down EDR. We found ourselves in the rotation, but didn't really want to block, so we'd just take short pulls through and let the other guys do their thing.

The funniest thing I've heard from a Cat 5 in a long time: J and I are on the front, and this 5 come screaming up the side to take over the pulling saying "I'm not getting played! This is BS!" (referring to what he thought was a false tempo). So, he's pulling us along as hard as he can, trying not to get played, body twisting and really hurting. Umm, that's the definition of "getting played." Another guy launches a blistering attack to catch EDR, J and I jump along for the ride. He falls off, so it's just me and my three teammates off the front (we picked up two guys we caught out on their own). Pretty funny. Coming into the re-group town, we probably had a minute on everyone.

Way to not get played, dude.