Time Trials
#1
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Time Trials
I'm a 30ish female who likes to compete in time trials. I've ridden several road races of 45 to 62 miles and found them somewhat boring. Boring because I'm not strong enough to break away early and lead to the end, but I am strong enough to stay in the front pack and be involved in the finishing sprint. This finishing sprint business is fun but it's only a 2 minute event and it is very easy to get boxed out. To ride for two hours just to be jammed in at the end in frustrating.
This is why I prefer time trials. It's all you. No drafting, no tactics, no getting boxed out, no excuses. Problem is, there are not many around my area. (Massachusetts) What do you others think of time trialing? To me it's more like running where your time is a true reflection of your fitness level.
This is why I prefer time trials. It's all you. No drafting, no tactics, no getting boxed out, no excuses. Problem is, there are not many around my area. (Massachusetts) What do you others think of time trialing? To me it's more like running where your time is a true reflection of your fitness level.
#2
Overacting because I can
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Mean Streets of Bethesda, MD
Posts: 4,552
Bikes: Merlin Agilis, Trek 1500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
TTs are interesting if you're near someone to catch or keep ahead of. Problem is, that's often not the case. On a pure enjoyment level, I prefer cyclocross racing - there's always something going on. There should be lots of CX racing in MA. Given the seasons, no reason you can't do both.
__________________
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
#3
Senior Member
...but then you win one of those sprints and you remember it forever. The fight for position with your teammates leading you up. The key moment when everything comes together, you fight through the hole and into clear space and then it's mano-a-mano down the last 200m and you are the victor.
Plus, retelling a sprint victory is tons more exciting for everyone involved than winning a time trial.
I mean a TT... what, 16 weeks of hashing down your functional threshold, power or heartrate numbers, geeking out on whether to wear this or that brand shoe cover. Then you eat something wonky the morning of your race at the breakfast bar in the hotel and you do your effort while wanting the whole time to throw up and die (perhaps not in that order) and then you finish and mill around waiting for someone to declare you the winner. How fun is that story to hear?
Plus, retelling a sprint victory is tons more exciting for everyone involved than winning a time trial.
I mean a TT... what, 16 weeks of hashing down your functional threshold, power or heartrate numbers, geeking out on whether to wear this or that brand shoe cover. Then you eat something wonky the morning of your race at the breakfast bar in the hotel and you do your effort while wanting the whole time to throw up and die (perhaps not in that order) and then you finish and mill around waiting for someone to declare you the winner. How fun is that story to hear?
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 11-09-09 at 04:12 PM.
#4
Burning Matches.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,714
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4077 Post(s)
Liked 1,004 Times
in
677 Posts
What category are you?
Being in (what could be a) successful break is definitely the most fun thing out there. I'd suggest getting on a strong team.
Being in (what could be a) successful break is definitely the most fun thing out there. I'd suggest getting on a strong team.
__________________
ElJamoquio didn't hate the world, per se; he was just constantly disappointed by humanity.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There's a time trial every week April-Sept in Concord, MA:
https://www.northeastbicycleclub.org/home/events/?c=cbtt
https://www.northeastbicycleclub.org/home/events/?c=cbtt
#8
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Two years ago I was a cat 3. Have not road raced since. What I did not like WAS the team aspect. I like winning or failing on my own. This is the interest in TT for me. By the way, Bill Rodgers and Steve Pre are my favorite endurance athletes. Rodgers, like Pre, was fond of saying "run the first half of any race hard and then go crazy in the second half." They were all about handling pain. Embracing it, even.
#9
Mountain goat
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portland, ME
Posts: 368
Bikes: BMC Team Machine SLR01, (RIP) BMC Team Machine SLT01, CDale SuperV400, Cramerotti Genius Nivacrom, C'Dale R600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'll be riding the Maine State TT series this year, in case you wanna try it out. (www.bikemaine.org)
#10
Senior Member
Depending on where in MA you're located, there is a TT series in Plainville CT (or somewhere in that vicinity). I think there is another one near Vernon, CT. Obviously these are during the summer. There may be one up at NE Velodrome in NH (a few exits into NH up 93).
I'm not sure if any of these ideas suits you but:
- a strong time trialer is always a good teammate to have. Although there isn't this culture of the "Jens Voigt" of women racing, strong teams always, always have riders who can pull forever as the base of their team. Then you get climbers, leadout men, etc. But to be able to pull for a long time, that's a special strength. You can leverage that into becoming an important part of a strong team.
- certain events favor a strong TT/pacer type racer. There are a few women that come to mind, pros, who can't sprint well but will do some serious damage if given a bit of room. Anna Milkowski is one of them (and local to CT). Courses where there's a hard climb long before the finish, allowing a strong rider to get out front, then offers the challenge of holding onto whatever lead, those races would suit someone like yourself.
- Track racing favors strong racers with leg speed. If you can get even small gaps between you and the other women, your strength can help you win. Simply racing on the track will teach you leg speed, or teach you that you need to learn track speed. I found myself to be in the latter example, and I think I have good leg speed. I really don't.
- Time trialing is a means to an end. Meaning you can go out and focus solely on TTs. However, even the best TT riders will tell you that group riding helps increase pace. The top riders may not do group rides for training anymore, but talk to any triathlete and they'll tell you that group riding helped increase their speed.
- Therefore, it may be beneficial, even as a strong time trialer, to go out and do mass start races (and group rides for sure). if this is the case, you would benefit greatly from spending some time thinking about tactics, about letting yourself get physiologically bored (i.e. racing at 90 bpm for a while), and start thinking of ways you can use your strength to get away from the field.
A team helps greatly in the last bit - you can be the decoy, but you'd be strong enough to win on your own if other teams don't chase. And teams can help launch you.
cdr
I'm not sure if any of these ideas suits you but:
- a strong time trialer is always a good teammate to have. Although there isn't this culture of the "Jens Voigt" of women racing, strong teams always, always have riders who can pull forever as the base of their team. Then you get climbers, leadout men, etc. But to be able to pull for a long time, that's a special strength. You can leverage that into becoming an important part of a strong team.
- certain events favor a strong TT/pacer type racer. There are a few women that come to mind, pros, who can't sprint well but will do some serious damage if given a bit of room. Anna Milkowski is one of them (and local to CT). Courses where there's a hard climb long before the finish, allowing a strong rider to get out front, then offers the challenge of holding onto whatever lead, those races would suit someone like yourself.
- Track racing favors strong racers with leg speed. If you can get even small gaps between you and the other women, your strength can help you win. Simply racing on the track will teach you leg speed, or teach you that you need to learn track speed. I found myself to be in the latter example, and I think I have good leg speed. I really don't.
- Time trialing is a means to an end. Meaning you can go out and focus solely on TTs. However, even the best TT riders will tell you that group riding helps increase pace. The top riders may not do group rides for training anymore, but talk to any triathlete and they'll tell you that group riding helped increase their speed.
- Therefore, it may be beneficial, even as a strong time trialer, to go out and do mass start races (and group rides for sure). if this is the case, you would benefit greatly from spending some time thinking about tactics, about letting yourself get physiologically bored (i.e. racing at 90 bpm for a while), and start thinking of ways you can use your strength to get away from the field.
A team helps greatly in the last bit - you can be the decoy, but you'd be strong enough to win on your own if other teams don't chase. And teams can help launch you.
cdr
#11
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Depending on where in MA you're located, there is a TT series in Plainville CT (or somewhere in that vicinity). I think there is another one near Vernon, CT. Obviously these are during the summer. There may be one up at NE Velodrome in NH (a few exits into NH up 93).
I'm not sure if any of these ideas suits you but:
- a strong time trialer is always a good teammate to have. Although there isn't this culture of the "Jens Voigt" of women racing, strong teams always, always have riders who can pull forever as the base of their team. Then you get climbers, leadout men, etc. But to be able to pull for a long time, that's a special strength. You can leverage that into becoming an important part of a strong team.
- certain events favor a strong TT/pacer type racer. There are a few women that come to mind, pros, who can't sprint well but will do some serious damage if given a bit of room. Anna Milkowski is one of them (and local to CT). Courses where there's a hard climb long before the finish, allowing a strong rider to get out front, then offers the challenge of holding onto whatever lead, those races would suit someone like yourself.
- Track racing favors strong racers with leg speed. If you can get even small gaps between you and the other women, your strength can help you win. Simply racing on the track will teach you leg speed, or teach you that you need to learn track speed. I found myself to be in the latter example, and I think I have good leg speed. I really don't.
- Time trialing is a means to an end. Meaning you can go out and focus solely on TTs. However, even the best TT riders will tell you that group riding helps increase pace. The top riders may not do group rides for training anymore, but talk to any triathlete and they'll tell you that group riding helped increase their speed.
- Therefore, it may be beneficial, even as a strong time trialer, to go out and do mass start races (and group rides for sure). if this is the case, you would benefit greatly from spending some time thinking about tactics, about letting yourself get physiologically bored (i.e. racing at 90 bpm for a while), and start thinking of ways you can use your strength to get away from the field.
A team helps greatly in the last bit - you can be the decoy, but you'd be strong enough to win on your own if other teams don't chase. And teams can help launch you.
cdr
I'm not sure if any of these ideas suits you but:
- a strong time trialer is always a good teammate to have. Although there isn't this culture of the "Jens Voigt" of women racing, strong teams always, always have riders who can pull forever as the base of their team. Then you get climbers, leadout men, etc. But to be able to pull for a long time, that's a special strength. You can leverage that into becoming an important part of a strong team.
- certain events favor a strong TT/pacer type racer. There are a few women that come to mind, pros, who can't sprint well but will do some serious damage if given a bit of room. Anna Milkowski is one of them (and local to CT). Courses where there's a hard climb long before the finish, allowing a strong rider to get out front, then offers the challenge of holding onto whatever lead, those races would suit someone like yourself.
- Track racing favors strong racers with leg speed. If you can get even small gaps between you and the other women, your strength can help you win. Simply racing on the track will teach you leg speed, or teach you that you need to learn track speed. I found myself to be in the latter example, and I think I have good leg speed. I really don't.
- Time trialing is a means to an end. Meaning you can go out and focus solely on TTs. However, even the best TT riders will tell you that group riding helps increase pace. The top riders may not do group rides for training anymore, but talk to any triathlete and they'll tell you that group riding helped increase their speed.
- Therefore, it may be beneficial, even as a strong time trialer, to go out and do mass start races (and group rides for sure). if this is the case, you would benefit greatly from spending some time thinking about tactics, about letting yourself get physiologically bored (i.e. racing at 90 bpm for a while), and start thinking of ways you can use your strength to get away from the field.
A team helps greatly in the last bit - you can be the decoy, but you'd be strong enough to win on your own if other teams don't chase. And teams can help launch you.
cdr
I do not want to misrepresent myself here. I do not consider myself a national class rider. My game was distance running in high school and in college where I ran track and cross country. A knee operation ended any serious running for me. So now I bike. Started year-round riding 7 years ago. Commute to work most days and like biking in general. I did try road racing a while back and had no trouble advancing quickly to cat 3. This was because of a solid running background and few good female riders at the lower levels. Going up the ladder and that all changes. Problem was/is I don't like the pack aspect of bike racing. The drafting at speed allows lesser athletes to be in a position they have no business occupying. Or I should say, that is how I view it as a former runner. You cannot draft to any real degree in marathoning no matter what you might hear. Cycling you can. This I do not like.
So for fun I like to do cycling time trials. I find the challenge of concentrating without others around you to be just like running. And that is what I like.
#12
Burning Matches.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,714
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4077 Post(s)
Liked 1,004 Times
in
677 Posts
Just TT in front of 50 people chasing you. Trust me, it's more fun.
__________________
ElJamoquio didn't hate the world, per se; he was just constantly disappointed by humanity.
#13
fair weather cyclist
Have you considered focusing more on higher end power to be able to break away?
Yes, time trialing is all you,but I personally think it is sort of boring. If you are in MA, you might consider doing the "hill climb" circuit, which is essence a time trial, but for me much more interesting. They are mostly mass start and of course do not require any fancy TT bike.
https://www.hillclimbseries.com/
In a RR, if the terrain allows it, YOU can make that race interesting by attacking.
Yes, time trialing is all you,but I personally think it is sort of boring. If you are in MA, you might consider doing the "hill climb" circuit, which is essence a time trial, but for me much more interesting. They are mostly mass start and of course do not require any fancy TT bike.
https://www.hillclimbseries.com/
In a RR, if the terrain allows it, YOU can make that race interesting by attacking.
#14
Race to train
Join Date: May 2005
Location: suffering on the back
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
IMO this is totally wrong for time trialing. TTs are reflective of homework and mentality not fitness. Sure fitness plays a major role in it but position and willingness to suffer are much greater. I am outclassed in the fitness and raw power departments most of the time when I roll up to a TT but the results don't reflect that. The strongest guys doesn't always win just like road races and crits.
#15
VeloSIRraptor
as a former Tri guy... allow me to quote EJ, he nailed it.
TTs are fun (in a kinky sort of way), but TTing with a whole pack of other racers chasing you is a whoooole different sort of rush.
I've never come out on top in a sprint, (some 2nds, 3rds,.. never the W) but between being the pacer for a team at times, and other times launching completely hair-brained attacks to make people panic, I don't find racing to be dull in the slightest.
Granted - I'm not a huge fan of crits and the usual mass sprints, but the fact that another racer isn't as "good" as me (in physical condition) doesn't matter. They may be (such as cdr) smart enough and crafty enough to use my strength against me, work me over repeatedly, and beat me to the line easily. The name of the game is, 'first to the line' not, 'measure quads, WIN'. It took me a while to come around to that, I am now happy to pit my TT legs against someone else's sprint legs... different strategies for the same result.
This sport is a combination of very intense critical thinking (try thinking out the next 5 minutes of pack dynmaics while red-lining @ 197bpm) and also having the legs to back that thinking up. Some people win with more brain, others with more brawn... that is what makes it fun.
It took me several years to come around to this point of view- for a while I was completely upset that other people were "cheating" (drafting, the same reasoning you stated)... but now that is the part I love most.
FWIW, think ahead and pick your battles- hilly circuit races or road races might be a good setup for you?
I just finished my tentative schedule of races for next season... I am going to do crits for weekly workouts of towing people around and some sprint work 'icing' at the end, but my 'A' races are circuit races and road races where I will put that work to good use... stretching it out & thinning the herd on hills, and then getting away for solo or very small group finishes.
TTs are fun (in a kinky sort of way), but TTing with a whole pack of other racers chasing you is a whoooole different sort of rush.
I've never come out on top in a sprint, (some 2nds, 3rds,.. never the W) but between being the pacer for a team at times, and other times launching completely hair-brained attacks to make people panic, I don't find racing to be dull in the slightest.
Granted - I'm not a huge fan of crits and the usual mass sprints, but the fact that another racer isn't as "good" as me (in physical condition) doesn't matter. They may be (such as cdr) smart enough and crafty enough to use my strength against me, work me over repeatedly, and beat me to the line easily. The name of the game is, 'first to the line' not, 'measure quads, WIN'. It took me a while to come around to that, I am now happy to pit my TT legs against someone else's sprint legs... different strategies for the same result.
This sport is a combination of very intense critical thinking (try thinking out the next 5 minutes of pack dynmaics while red-lining @ 197bpm) and also having the legs to back that thinking up. Some people win with more brain, others with more brawn... that is what makes it fun.
It took me several years to come around to this point of view- for a while I was completely upset that other people were "cheating" (drafting, the same reasoning you stated)... but now that is the part I love most.
FWIW, think ahead and pick your battles- hilly circuit races or road races might be a good setup for you?
I just finished my tentative schedule of races for next season... I am going to do crits for weekly workouts of towing people around and some sprint work 'icing' at the end, but my 'A' races are circuit races and road races where I will put that work to good use... stretching it out & thinning the herd on hills, and then getting away for solo or very small group finishes.
#16
Resident Alien
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,089
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
6 Posts
IMO this is totally wrong for time trialing. TTs are reflective of homework and mentality not fitness. Sure fitness plays a major role in it but position and willingness to suffer are much greater. I am outclassed in the fitness and raw power departments most of the time when I roll up to a TT but the results don't reflect that. The strongest guys doesn't always win just like road races and crits.
The two best things in racing are passing your minute person in a TT (especially if they are a rival) and winning, as the Belg's say, with "no one in the picture". Winning a field sprint, if you've done the other two, is third.
#17
Senior Member
There's a lot more to bike racing than just fitness. If you decide it's not for you, fine; but road racing is a lot more than just a test of fitness. Figuring out how to win within the constraints of your personal strengths and weaknesses against those of the other riders is an advanced skill in itself. You shouldn't denigrate successful road racers as lesser athletes just because they don't meet your peculiar standards.
#18
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,339
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 755 Times
in
390 Posts
Whatever floats your boat. In spite of the fact that my one gift is an ability to suffer, I much prefer the rolling chess match of a road race to a TT.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park, FL
Posts: 1,341
Bikes: Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
That's the beauty of road racing; it requires a multitude of skills and tactics, not just a high FTP and a tolerance for pain. I train for TTs, I want to get better at 'em, I did a practice one Saturday... but if that's all racing consisted of, I'd quit now.
#20
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,847
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked 936 Times
in
619 Posts
That's what I hate about chess too. It seems as often as note the weaker athlete wins over the stronger one.
There's a lot more to bike racing than just fitness. If you decide it's not for you, fine; but road racing is a lot more than just a test of fitness. Figuring out how to win within the constraints of your personal strengths and weaknesses against those of the other riders is an advanced skill in itself. You shouldn't denigrate successful road racers as lesser athletes just because they don't meet your peculiar standards.
There's a lot more to bike racing than just fitness. If you decide it's not for you, fine; but road racing is a lot more than just a test of fitness. Figuring out how to win within the constraints of your personal strengths and weaknesses against those of the other riders is an advanced skill in itself. You shouldn't denigrate successful road racers as lesser athletes just because they don't meet your peculiar standards.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
#21
Elite Fred
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Posts: 10,945
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times
in
19 Posts
#22
Senior Member
That said, there are plenty of people are best at and prefer racing TT's, and more power to you if that includes you (by the way - search www.ne-bra.org for New England TT series). But don't make the mistake of thinking that a rider's 'right' to win is measured by her strength in a time trial, and certainly don't make the mistake of believing that a win against stronger racers is somehow unearned; it is ungracious and incorrect to think about bike racing in this fashion. When you get right down to it, it is basically a meritocracy: if you can win, win. If you aren't winning (or at least getting close), the most likely person culprit is you.
#23
fair weather cyclist
TT's aren't called the "Race of Truth" for nothing. You find out how much you really want to win. I've come in with below average form and left with one of the best times. And an empty stomach. And the inability to get off the couch that evening.
The two best things in racing are passing your minute person in a TT (especially if they are a rival) and winning, as the Belg's say, with "no one in the picture". Winning a field sprint, if you've done the other two, is third.
The two best things in racing are passing your minute person in a TT (especially if they are a rival) and winning, as the Belg's say, with "no one in the picture". Winning a field sprint, if you've done the other two, is third.
How about winning a road race by dropping the pack and TTing to a solo victory???? Seems like the best of everything!!
#24
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I did not mean to anger anyone. I simply view bike racing as a runner. Running is very different from cycling. What you think of as chess, I view as dreary. I'm only interested in spending myself totally. Someone earlier posted a hill climbing site. That appeals to me because it's hard to draft at 7mph straight up. If you love road racing, good for you. It does not interest me.
Thanks for all who did not feel the need to get defensive. I was given some good info here.
Thanks for all who did not feel the need to get defensive. I was given some good info here.