FlashBazbo

Two essential facts:
1. This will be my first road race in the mountains and I'm a flat-lander. I'm a mountain slug.
2. There are as many prescriptions for the last 11 weeks of training before a race as there are racers and wanna-be racers.

So . . . given that the weather stinks and there aren't many hours of daylight for training during the week (I have a day job), what would you prescribe to get ready for the race?

waterrockets 

Maybe lose a couple pounds if you're carrying too much fat.

Other than that, build threshold power and VO2Max for surges. So, days of long intervals or SST, and one workout/week of 5 x 4-7 minute intervals (hill repeats?).

procrit

^ Ditto. Increase Power / Weight ratio. Lose weight. Try to get to 5-7% bodyfat if possible. Don't lift weights.

Build threshold. You can't climb a mountain without it.

FlashBazbo

I'm working off of heart rate (sorry folks, no power in the budget). As a rule of thumb, am I looking to maintain 90% of max heart rate? Or is there another measure that will get me to the top of long, steep climbs alive and faster?

waterrockets 

Estimate/test your LTHR, and SST should be around 85-90% of that number.

For the VO2 intervals, try them with negative splits for pacing. Do the same course for each one (hill repeats are nice for this), and try to do the same course in slightly less time for each interval. You want to get to the point that you can finish off five of them with successively faster times, and be completely fried on the last one, just barely making your goal. When you first start these workouts, you're more likely to fail on the 3rd or 4th one -- so just shoot for the new goal on the following ones (just try to beat the previous time).

MDcatV

above, also, how long are the climbs you'll be doing, timewise not distance wise. estimate if you dont know. do your intervals at that duration and find out how to pace them.

additionally, i would go into the race with realistic expectations. you arent going to become a climber regardless of what you do the next 11 weeks if you arent good at it already.

procrit

With the exception of: A) Having a decent threshold to start with. B) Having a lot of extra weight to lose C) Losing the weight and not losing the threshold power

11 weeks will give you about 9 weeks to REALLY focus on losing weight, and if you can drop 2 pounds a week, say from 180 to 162, then that would give you an extra 10% power to weight ratio, which is HUGE when climbing or accelerating in general. Think about going from 4.0x to 4.5x w/kg as a cat 4. That would take you from finishing well in the pack to going top 5 (if not winning) almost every race. No power gain, all weight loss.

Now, if your threshold is only 3.0 w/kg, going to 3.3 w/kg probably won't do anything but allow you stick with the group an extra minute or two before getting dropped. That I will agree with.

FlashBazbo

Thanks for the help!

I figure each of the climbs to be in the neighborhood of 40 to 50 minutes of 8% to 10% grade, on average, peaking around 17%. Realistically, I'm not even thinking about an attack on the mountains -- just max speed, my own pace, and steady, unless the group provides shelter at a slower pace (not very likely). My focus from here is to maximize my speed for that steady climb.

MDcatV

^good points. I find it very difficult to restrict diet enough to drop #s, even at 2#/wk rate, and recover from workouts at > tempo intensity.


FlashBazbo, you're finding training time to be limited, here's a 12 hr. to 14 hr. week for you.

Lights out pre-10:00, up at 4:45, on the trainer bike at 5, off by 6:30 4x/week; 3 to 4 hrs. on your days off, if weather on days off is forecast to suck, do evening training ride as well. I even threw a rest day in there for you!

FlashBazbo

I'm about 4 pounds from my optimum fighting weight. I could MAYBE go 6 pounds, but that would likely be cutting into lean mass a bit. So, unfortunately, weight loss won't be a huge opportunity. My weight and fitness level are among the primary reasons I've decided to enter this race this year. It is normally too early in the season for me to consider.

Shayne

hmm...you're in Middle Tennessee. Get down to Tellico Plains on the weekends and spend time on the Cherohala Skyway. I was just down there last weekend and the roads were clear all the way to 4800'. My team uses this road for mini training camps all the time. It's only 6 hours away, the locals are friendly and there are plenty of routes.

El Diablo Rojo

Aside from the power advice here is some advice on climbing in a race situation, this is stuff that works for me..and others may have different strategies.:

Avoid going into the red, this may seem obvious but its amazing how often I see guys who don't climb much get there and blow up...unlike in a flat race you can't recover..once you go into the red you'll get popped quick. So if you are in a group or it's you and another rider...stay within yourself..if someone attacks and you are already close to your limit don't try to match it...stay consistent and try to roll back up to him/them.

At Ft Davis every year this happens, guys start at the bottom and blow up in the first mile...and get dropped hard..don't do this. The amount of time you can lose on a short 3mile climb can be massive. Remember once you get into the red there is no hiding in the pack...there is no place to coast..so stay right at or just below threshold.

I like to be the guy dictating the pace up a hill, I know what I can do and how hard I can go so having someone on my wheel rather than the other way round makes climbing easier for me..I will sometimes fall to third wheel if I'm going to attack hard so I can get the jump and quicker gap. But setting the pace is to your advantage, and for the most part there is little benefit of the draft for those behind you.

If you are feeling it and want to attack..go hard get some separation then settle in...the guys behind you will have to really dig hard to get your wheel...if they get your wheel hit them again as soon as they get on...usually a couple of these will pop most guys.

Try to have fun...honestly I believe what makes guys good TT'ers or climbers is that they enjoy it..I love climbing..the longer the better...it makes a big difference.

procrit

Assuming cat 4 status, and assuming you are in your first year or two of training, and assuming you have average recovery ability, this would be a good all around schedule: (An adaptation of my own training plan)

I'd break it down like this:

Week 1-4: Build
Week 5-6: Recover
Week 7-9: Build
Week 10-11: Taper / peak

Build schedule (7-9hr / week, 4 days on, 3 off):

Tuesdays: 30-40' @ Threshold & 30' @ SST (For threshold do 2x20's, 5x6's, 6x5's, 4x10's, etc. @ 95-105% LTHR or ~88-92% max heart rate. SST: 1x30' @ 90-95% LTHR or 80-85% max heart rate if you don't know LTHR)
Wednesdays: 60-90' Tempo (either a big 1x60-90' interval, or break it up into two intervals with a short break in between. 85-90% LTHR or 75-80% max heart rate)
Thursdays: 90-120' Endurance (1x90-120' @ 80-85% LTHR or 70-75% max heart rate)
Saturdays: 1x3-4hr group ride (just get your vo2 and anaerobic work in here, don't necessarily need to bomb your legs during the week with vo2 specific work in my opinion, especially if your weakness is long climbing, which is directly related to low ftp)
Sunday: If legs feel great, think about doing some tempo this day to just add a little extra stress on the legs. If they are tired, just rest. Your work during the week did it's job.

Recover / Taper / Peak schedule:

Do about 50-75% less time on the bike, cut your intervals to at least half of what you did during the build (ie, do only 1x20' instead of 2x20'). Extra time in bed.

No hard intervals within 5 days of the race, period. Extra carbs (and water) the last two days leading up to the event to top up your glycogen reserves and make sure you are properly hydrated (it's much easier to cramp when you have to go hard for long efforts so hydration is key). 1-2 days completely off of the bike prior to the race, stay off the legs at all costs.

Again, you may be wondering why I didn't put any vo2 specific or anaerobic specific intervals in there, and that is because you probably don't need them if you are doing a group hammer ride once a week. They also stress your system A LOT, and they are hard to recover from, so they can put a damper on the quality of training during the other rides. If you want to do them anyway, decrease the amount of pure threshold work on Tuesday, and add in a few 3-5' intervals that are pretty much all out efforts, but I think your run the risk of overtraining at the assumed level of fitness / training history / genetic recovery ability / etc.

powpow

Seems like a lot of good advice procrit. I'm curious about this part though:

I'm sure there are many differing opinions on this, but I know some like to do a shortish ride the day before a race, and even get the HR elevated a few times.

Thoughts?

fordfasterr

What is the point in adding training stress the day before a race? Just a thought...

fordfasterr

11 weeks without V02 max intervals? There are none in there at all.

?

procrit

Some guys get 'blocked legs' if they take two complete days off the bike, so they like to do some 'openers' the day before. I personally don't have this issue, although I do extend my warmup a bit longer than normal on race day so they are fully open by the start of the race. Especially before something like a 60 minute crit where you don't have time to warmup during the race.

I say no vo2 specific intervals during the week, just do them during the group ride, at least for new(er) riders. You will be going to vo2 max / anaerobic a LOT if it's a hammer ride, especially if you're a cat 4 or 5 (heck even cat 3's if they are riding with a bunch of 1's and 2's or other strong 3's). The time would better be spent building your aerobic base and threshold power. However, for those that can't get in group rides, or those that are too fast for their group, then yes, they probably need to set aside some time to specifically work on vo2 specifically.

Duke of Kent

You don't have to be a "climber" to do well in races with a lot of climbing. I moved to OR from IL last year, and had never set foot above 4000ft before that. Granted, this was MTBing, but I blew the doors off of the Cat 1 field in races with significant climbs, and was able to stay with the pros on the climbs.

How? I'm skinny, and produce a lot of power. Lop some fat off your ass and push your threshold through the roof. That's the magical formula.

kudude

not to be a dick.....but doesn't that make you a 'climber'

FlashBazbo

Some things are genetically determined.

To have a climber's physiology (2 lbs per inch of height), I would need to weigh 140 lbs.

At my current muscle, bone, etc. mass, 140 lbs. would give me a body fat percentage of NEGATIVE 5.6%. I'm not sure that would be healthy.

procrit

I climb better than most of the stick-like people in the cat 3's. W/kg is where it's at... not lbs/in of height.

FlashBazbo

It's just a common rule of thumb you'll read in the training literature. I didn't mean it as an inviolate rule.

procrit

^ gotcha.

MtnRide

You could always lose muscle. Not saying it'd get you to 2 lbs/in (or that the rule-of-thumb means anything) but it might be the pathway to enlightenment.

kudude

it's a sad but true fact that your pecs don't take you up the hill. makes my wife sad, anyway