umd

They still tell me

Crash716

yeah but know we get the "stop racing stupid" with no further explaination cause we know better by know.

ridethecliche

Yup.

Starting out a team without atleast a few experienced members to move things along is a really dumb idea.

Be real. You guys don't know jack about racing compared to people who've been doing it forever. The team I raced with has a ton of masters and guys who've been doing this for a long while. Some of them are 2's. Now in season I don't see them much because they train by themselves or with each other. In the winter, they host long rides 1-2x a week and teach us how to do leadouts, how to ride in a paceline/rotate properly, etc etc. Without those guys, even the most promising 5's are lost.

If you don't have guidance from within, you have to learn to take criticism from others without taking it so personally. In the end of the day, we're all a bunch of loser bike nerds. We look out for each other, and when a team starts messing with the already shady safety aspect on purpose, then they get called out. That's fair.

Either learn from those who see something you don't, even if they're less experienced than you are, or stop racing.

There's a reason there's such a strong racing community, in part because of how our safety depends on everyone elses. Don't **** with that dynamic.

I've had it with idiot bozos pulling stunts to show someone a lesson in a race and causing a ton of damage in the process.

spinwax

hitsthepotholes_ow

Congrats on the new team. It is always awesome to see more and more people get into the sport.

The best thing a new team can do is get their face out there but in the most positive way possible. If there is more than one or two people commenting that there are a few sketchy riders on a team, it might be something to look into. Granted I think there were probably some better ways to comment on it than some folks on here did.

Maybe get the team together for a riding clinic. There are tons of USA Cycling coaches/experienced riders/ and even pros out there that are willing to help out a new team with little or no cost. Not only is it good for the team members, but it shows other older existing teams you are serious about buiding a fast, safe team. You may want to even contact another local team and have a get together to split the cost of a riding/bike handling skills clinic.

Again, good luck with the new venture.

tanhalt

Yeah...even after you've catted up away from them

thewylie

I think my main concern is the tone. We really feel like were just sort of being pushed out of the sport entirely. No matter how well we ride or how many races we go without causing a crash theres this pervasive ambivalance towards us that no amount of good riding is going to dispel. I had honestly hoped we would mainly fly under the radar.

Please understand that as a club we in no way encourage poor riding style and we are always encouraging members to attend other club rides and seek out rides where they can learn from.

We really are open to criticism and appreciate the time people have taken to approach us and give us advice. You will find that if you do come up and talk to us there are many, very amiable, people on our team. Yes its true we will be defensive if someone with a negative attitude approaches us, and I don't believe we've acted responsibly in the face of the negative criticism, but this is something we are working on as well.

I really don't want it to be us vs them, we founded this club on sportsmanship and camaraderie, I'd hate to see cycling ability take prescedent over those values.

Humility aside I myself have participated in close to 20 races and I understand the importance of safe riding. Our club would never encourage someone to learn their basic handling skills within a race, so please do not assume this is how we run the club. We also do ride regularly with pros and people of higher category.

ridethecliche

You can't have a team without good mentorship from within. Period.

20 races is nothing. Some guys on here do that in 2 months, if not a month and a half. Gsb I'm looking at you.

ijunes

i think the OP and the others should specify their grievances with the team. maybe we can find a solution to this here.

Crash716

not likely.

Brian Ratliff

thewylie: Take it on the nose dude. Keep quiet and ride better. Your mistake was forming the team around a bunch of cat 5's - it's the blind leading the blind. Most successful developmental teams are centered around a core group of Cat 3s who can teach the less experienced guys about racing.

There's no way to repair a reputation except to ride consistently better. That's it.

And with 20 races under your belt, you are just learning how to race. You might understand the importance of safe riding, but do you know what "safe riding" is and do you know it well enough to teach it to your less experienced teammates? I'm into my third year and I am still developing as a racer. I am still taking notes from the more experienced riders on my team. If your most experienced guys have only one season under their belts... well... I think we just found your problem.

And on top of all that, you seem to have the whole groupthink going where you are 1) doing nothing wrong, 2) doing everything possible to get it right, and 3) everyone's being mean to you so you should ignore them.

What I would suggest would be to find a small team with a bunch of Cat 3s in it and ask if you and they can go out on training rides together. Admit that your group doesn't know very much about racing and you need a kind of mentoring group to train with. If your riding gets better as a group and it is generally known that you are training with another, more generally respected team, then you might be able to repair your reputation.

thewylie

I definitely feel that none of us have even begun to approach any level of cycling expertise, we started this so we could all grow together and train together, many of us weren't interested in simultaneously joining some well established club. The idea was to start something ourselves, and the truth is, yeah were all first year racers. I believe my first race was the Redlands Classic last March.

Like I said before we are always looking for learning experiences.

umd

It sounds like part of the problem is that you think simply not causinga crash is good riding.

umd

Most of my team are 1s and 2s. I feel like the odd man out, there are only a handful of us 3s and fewer 4s like tanhalt (he is a stronger and smarter racer than me, he just doesn't race enough). I'm always learning something from them.

Ritte should be nearby and they are mostly a cat 3 team... it would be a good place to start.

thewylie

I think you are twisting my words, I said "OR" which implies that good riding and not crashing are mutually exclusive.

ridethecliche

I honestly think you really don't understand as much as you give yourself credit for.

For starters, starting up a new team with new riders is a really stupid idea. When you start a team, you do your homework and see what the successful teams are doing instead of assuming that you know better and doing it your way. Your arrogance is in the inception/conception.

save10

this.is.awesome.

gbot

Is that not just basic common sense? As a racing newbie, the last thing I would want to do is join a club/team with other guys as clueless as me. The correct course of action seems to be exactly the opposite - find the highest level group that will tolerate you and sponge up as much information/experience as you can.

waterrockets 

Speaking of picking up experience from experience, anything like this in your area? https://drivewayseries.com.aspx2.dotn...7/Default.aspx

umd

That you even put them near each other speaks volumes.

thewylie

We didn't start a team, we started a club, and the only reason we started it was to encourage eachother and work with eachother to move up through the categories. As far as learning from eachother... we know thats pretty much an impossibility seeings as how were all at similar levels. This is why we often ride with others at group rides, life Wolf Pack Hustle or Simi Valley Ride(which I believe has already ended for the season)

ridethecliche

Ya know, I've come to a conclusion.

You're so full of yourself and so self absorbed that you fail to even think about what you're doing! A club and team are the same bloody thing in this regard. You have 0 ****ing mentorship! Why the hell would you ride with people you can't learn anything from all the time? The guys on the big group rides want to ride themselves, they're not taking you under their wing if you all have matching jerseys on. That's not their role, you made that so. I guarantee that at those rides, you're trying to prove yourselves and not learn a damned thing.

You're playing a semantic game here and you know it. You just defined away your club. Why not do things right and do them the right way? Would having upper cat members or your guys joining a different team together have caused there to be no motivation and encouragement? I have no freaking clue what you're trying to prove, but your self righteousness and refusal to do things right and actually try to learn anything is going to get someone badly hurt.

I'm done here. I have much more important things to do. I've never raced with you guys, nor do I care who you are. You're just beyond help at this point unless you shut your mouth and open your eyes and ears.

Cue the countless facepalms.

Brian Ratliff

If you are racing, then you are a team, not a club. But regardless of semantics, you need to be riding with other racers. Recreational club riding and racing are two very different animals. You need to be around more experienced racers not other recreational riders.

thewylie

Really I just encourage everyone to come meet us and talk to us because I think my tone is being conveyed improperly here.

If you see us at a race, come say hi, if you have criticisms or feedback we'd love to hear it. Thanks for your troubles.

umd

The Simi Ride splits into several different routes and all the people who know what they are doing go the long/hard way. I never saw any of you guys on that route, and the times when we didn't go that way, the whole thing was a cluster****. I know nothing of the Wolf Pack Hustle, never heard of it mentioned among the good training rides like Simi, Pendleton, Montrose, Swamis, etc. I don't get down that way too often so it could just be my LA unfamiliarity.

ijunes

https://wolfpackhustle.com/events.php

its fast, but my vision at night is just not suitable to tack on LA potholes and red light sprint primes