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A kilo

Old 07-20-10, 01:04 PM
  #51  
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Isn't it possible that wind effected your little experiment WR?
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Old 07-20-10, 01:04 PM
  #52  
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And anyway... have fun. The kilo is probably the most intense event on the track.

And Z, you are right about a lot of things, but wrong here. Trackies work the same as anyone else. They use the same cadence as roadies when they are on their road bikes and in a road race, they sprint out of the saddle in gigantic gears just like roadie sprinters. It's just that having a single gear ratio to work with makes the game a little different, and trackies know the tradeoffs involved better than roadies.
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Old 07-20-10, 01:06 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Yeah, I totally see that. The thing is that my first 250 is faster in the taller gear... and so is everything else.
Well, 1 second on a powertap recording at 1 second intervals is a bit of a rough way to time, and you weren't really trying any short gears. Just tall and taller.
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Old 07-20-10, 01:13 PM
  #54  
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Agreed on the sampling variability and wind influence, but this was both directions on the same course. Tonight I'll look at the download and check accelerations. Average power was also higher in the bigger gear, and with my power profile, a stronger start to a kilo is a better start to a kilo (I get my gains in the first 20 seconds, not the last 50).

The 53-17 was eliminated last time I tried this (don't have a 16) when I tested against the 15. I just can't seem to do anything with the high cadence after the acceleration. I was able to average 125rpm for one full kilo test, but the power was so low that it didn't make any sense.
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Old 07-20-10, 01:17 PM
  #55  
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I would say BR has it nailed here. Waterrockets, go out and try your experiment again in say an 88 inch gear (and move up from there). If at all possible on a fixed gear, you might find 130 rpm a little easier to stay on top of on a fixed.

I can't tell you how many roadies I've seen try to Kilo in a huge gear. They either take all day to get up to speed, or cross the line at 80 rpm (or both). Think about gear selection a little backwards, ride the smallest possible gear you can stay on top of.

edit: if you were holding 125 rpm why does the power matter? Seems like you are trying to maximize power output for 1 Kilo, not minimize time.
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Old 07-20-10, 01:30 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
I would say BR has it nailed here. Waterrockets, go out and try your experiment again in say an 88 inch gear (and move up from there). If at all possible on a fixed gear, you might find 130 rpm a little easier to stay on top of on a fixed.

I can't tell you how many roadies I've seen try to Kilo in a huge gear. They either take all day to get up to speed, or cross the line at 80 rpm (or both). Think about gear selection a little backwards, ride the smallest possible gear you can stay on top of.
I appreciate the gearing pressure from BR, yourself, and others. I'll give the littler gears another try to confirm. Training is cheap.

Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
edit: if you were holding 125 rpm why does the power matter? Seems like you are trying to maximize power output for 1 Kilo, not minimize time.
For the last 750m, more power = faster. I'm trying to balance the acceleration with the tailspin to a ball of fire in the last 750. From what I've heard, I need to find the gear that gets me through the first 250m the fastest, and deal with the rest. So far, the bigger gear is looking like the fastest way through 250m, and just has the benefit of leaving me at >35mph.

Looking at Sheldon's cadence calculator, 35.5mph in a 53-14 is 120rpm (again haven't downloaded today's data yet). I don't think 120rpm is over-geared to start the body of the kilo. So the only question is what gear for the launch?

I'll test more though, with some lower gears.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:00 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
And anyway... have fun. The kilo is probably the most intense event on the track.

And Z, you are right about a lot of things, but wrong here. Trackies work the same as anyone else. They use the same cadence as roadies when they are on their road bikes and in a road race, they sprint out of the saddle in gigantic gears just like roadie sprinters. It's just that having a single gear ratio to work with makes the game a little different, and trackies know the tradeoffs involved better than roadies.
No, they don't work the same as everyone else. Producing power at high cadence is a skill most roadies simply do not have. In fact simply being efficient at high cadence for longer periods of time (ie points race) requires a lot of muscle memory/training we don't have. Without that training and muscle memory, taking slightly slower acceleration in favor of a top speed that isn't absolutely pathetic is a good tradeoff.

I'm not saying taller gears are better for track. I'm saying taller gears are better for non-trackies on the track.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:01 PM
  #58  
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I just want to throw out there that you may find things to be different on a track bike.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:41 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

I'll test more though, with some lower gears.
Try one of those smaller gear tests on a fixed gear. My guess is you will find 130 rpm feels a little easier.

Z, we are talking about a Kilo here not a longer period of time. Pick a gear that gets you to 500 in the shortest time possible (not necessarily the highest speed at 500m) then deal with the rest as it comes.

32 mph for the last 500m vs 35 is around 1 sec in time. So give up a second on top end and gain a couple at the start. Finding the balance and being able to nail it on race day is the challenge.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:43 PM
  #60  
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Old 07-20-10, 06:06 PM
  #61  
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How much easier do the RPMs come on a fixed gear ?
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Old 07-20-10, 06:20 PM
  #62  
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Quite a bit if you get used to it.

/admits he has very little experience riding fixed and no experience on the track.
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Old 07-21-10, 03:24 PM
  #63  
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Looked at the data from the 250s yesterday. One of the 53-14 runs had the higher acceleration, and the other didn't.

I looked at an average of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th samples for speed to check acceleration. So I don't know if that's inconclusive or if I can just accelerate about the same in either gear.

The one that was higher with a 53x14 was the best acceleration of the day at 1.43m/s˛ average for 3.78 seconds.

Last edited by waterrockets; 07-21-10 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 07-22-10, 07:55 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
And anyway... have fun. The kilo is probably the most intense event on the track.

And Z, you are right about a lot of things, but wrong here. Trackies work the same as anyone else. They use the same cadence as roadies when they are on their road bikes and in a road race, they sprint out of the saddle in gigantic gears just like roadie sprinters. It's just that having a single gear ratio to work with makes the game a little different, and trackies know the tradeoffs involved better than roadies.
Agreed. It's also easier to produce power at a high RPM on the track considering your cranks are usually 2.5 or 5mm shorter than on the road, at least at a steep track like me and B-Rat's where pedal strike is a concern with anything above 170 and the majority ride smaller than that.

Also, sprint events and enduro events are totally different beasts on the track. A bigger gear for a long points race certainly makes sense because you don't want to spin 120rpm for half an hour with little upper end to sprint around people, but the same gear doesn't necessarily make sense in a race lasting for the majority of people less than 90 seconds.

Last edited by andre nickatina; 07-22-10 at 08:17 AM.
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