Question on Lance's hard crash in Stage 8
07-15-10, 02:39 PM
#26
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In thinking a bit more about this. It's a pretty big issue. I know it doesn't happen often, but it does happen consistently. It certainly wouldn't be allowed to exist in aircraft. Why hasn't anyone ever tried to remedy this situation? There needs to be some form of positive retention. It would only take 8-12 3mm socket head cap screws that go through the rim and then catch a small aluminum threaded receptacle in the base tape. Sure, you'd have a series of small (6mm) holes in the rim to put the cap screw through, but if you wanted, you could cover that with small bits of tape. I believe the total weight would be perhaps 75 grams or less.
You can say, "Well we've always done it this way and it works fine". I believe Lance (and, in reference to today's stage, Beloki) would disagree.
You can say, "Well we've always done it this way and it works fine". I believe Lance (and, in reference to today's stage, Beloki) would disagree.
07-15-10, 02:42 PM
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Lance: "I clipped a pedal, went down and rolled a tire"
CDR: Lance rolled a tire and crashed discuss
BF: continues to ignore the guy who crashed who said he clipped a pedal and discusses topic as if the rolled tire caused the crash.
CDR: Lance rolled a tire and crashed discuss
BF: continues to ignore the guy who crashed who said he clipped a pedal and discusses topic as if the rolled tire caused the crash.
07-15-10, 05:22 PM
#28
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Doubtful. You don't get up to 40 miles an hour on the flats by using the brakes hard. On the flats, you may feather your front occasionally, if at all. Usually, a rim will heat up enough to melt glue only one very twisty fast down hills, where you have to brake very hard for the corners.
07-16-10, 07:26 AM
#31
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With certain things, a rider will be inaccurate or incomplete to deflect inquiries. For example, Cadel didn't mention his broken elbow, nor did Hincapie his collarbone, etc. Other times it helps the rider to reveal all, like Tyler (Hamilton)'s collarbone or Farrar's wrist, because then the others underestimate the rider. In Lance's case, it helps his case to state that he dug a pedal and crashed. It seems pretty straightforward. But if he says that a team error resulted him in crashing... that's not so good.
So the rider/team won't say anything. But when you see video, it's maybe something else.
I'm just trying to open debate. I think it's very odd that no one has mentioned that the crash was pretty much mainly caused by a rolled tire, regardless of what happened to exert lateral pressure on the tire.
So the rider/team won't say anything. But when you see video, it's maybe something else.
I'm just trying to open debate. I think it's very odd that no one has mentioned that the crash was pretty much mainly caused by a rolled tire, regardless of what happened to exert lateral pressure on the tire.
07-16-10, 07:57 AM
#32
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I don't understand why you're so focused on this, CDR.
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07-16-10, 08:11 AM
#33
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I guess because no one agrees with me 
Seriously, it's really odd that no one's mentioned the rolled tire. No pictures of it. No pictures of the bike after the crash. Etc etc.
It's a race changing mechanical, at least for Lance. But no one has said that "Lance lost time due to a mechanical problem exposed by clippingpedal/corneringhard/whatever". If he hadn't crashed that second time, the race would have been very different and a lot more straightforward (i.e. if he was 10 minutes down, it's because he wasn't as strong).
Seriously, it's really odd that no one's mentioned the rolled tire. No pictures of it. No pictures of the bike after the crash. Etc etc.
It's a race changing mechanical, at least for Lance. But no one has said that "Lance lost time due to a mechanical problem exposed by clippingpedal/corneringhard/whatever". If he hadn't crashed that second time, the race would have been very different and a lot more straightforward (i.e. if he was 10 minutes down, it's because he wasn't as strong).
07-16-10, 09:53 AM
#34
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The only time I have clipped a pedal hard enough to roll a significant portion of the tire it folded the wheel as well. Back in the day, even if you were involved in a crash or a flat, tire off the rim = time off the bike. District reps (at least in the mid-west) were very strict about this.
Every race in MI used to start with Clair Young walking down the line trying to roll front tires off rims. If yours so much as budged you were headed back for your spare wheel (hoping you made it back to the line before the start).
Every race in MI used to start with Clair Young walking down the line trying to roll front tires off rims. If yours so much as budged you were headed back for your spare wheel (hoping you made it back to the line before the start).
07-16-10, 09:55 AM
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I don't think I was clear about what I was saying, although it may not change your opinion. I didn't mean to have some SHCS's in place of glue, I meant to have them in addition to it. You're correct about the surface area affect of the glue. It makes it incredibly strong in shear and tension. The problem with most adhesives is peel strength. I think it's doubly so with tubular glue in that the tire will eventually have to be removed, so it never has a permanent set. Having some mechanism there to provide a resistance to the peeling and provide additional force holding the tire to the rim seems like a difficult thing to argue against.
07-16-10, 09:56 AM
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I've never seen a cycling site post pics of post-crash bikes at the Tour.
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07-16-10, 09:56 AM
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07-16-10, 01:49 PM
#38
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I was thinking of the time while they were picking up the bike and giving Lance a new one. Then there are the shots of the bike on the roof of the team car. I wasn't thinking of pictures of the bike at the team bus etc.
07-16-10, 03:41 PM
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Bad glue job was my first thought when I heard him say he clipped a pedal & rolled a tire.
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07-16-10, 05:03 PM
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I think he clipped his pedal on the curb which would be much more violent than touching the road. They weren't cornering hard enough for the pedal to touch the road. Most people have experienced clipping a pedal on a corner in a crit but usually not at 60kmh so I don't find it strange that most of the tire came off the rim.
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