Bob Dopolina 

Bit of a rant here.

I did our weekly worlds last night. I ride to the ride, we then ride as a group to hook uo with another group and then it's on.

As we start to wind it up we roll past a team of riders who have come from another city to join the ride. This is a very strong team (riders who have raced internationally this season) and so I knew the level of the ride had just shot up.

Oh yeah, and there are at least 8 of them in our 50 rider group.

I'm all for pushing it and I know I benefited from having more strong riders there but what happened next really pissed me off.

This team always has numbers and they use the same tactic every time; The send two riders off the front and then block. If the riders are caught they repeat the process until they have riders away.

They block.

In a training race.

Years ago I was a member of a local team that had many of the best riders in the area. These riders dominated local races and the weekly worlds. BUT we had a rule: NOT TEAM TACTICS.

The worlds were mano y mano. In fact we took distinct pleasure in attacking the crap out of our team mates. Everyone got a good work out and it was hella fun.

I was so pissed at this move that I spent the entire race chasing down any move they made. We finished in a bunch sprint.

As a side note I had a hellova work-out.

wanders

One of the larger local teams does something similar (but not quite) on a few of the charity rides around here. They will come out about 8 strong and send one guy off the front. They give him about 5 minutes to get as far away as possible then proceed to chase him down. They don't seem to mind if someone goes with the escapee to help "keep away". I went with one guy last year before I knew what they were doing. After being away for about 15 minutes, I see 3 of the guys' teammates leading the chase to us. After we were caught, I said to one of the chasers, whom I've known for years, "You call that blocking? Thanks for nothing." He just smiled.

They use the rides to make a showing in the community and practice some team tactics. No jitbags.

mollusk

That sucks most of the fun out of the weekly world's.

That reminds me. I have been avoiding our local version for too long. Time to get in shape and show up.

Bob Dopolina 

^^^ Sure, they're chasing each other down. All in good fun. They're not there blocking other riders in order to win...nothing.

king-tony

Worlds are every man for himself. If not, it would be no fun at all.

davids0507

I always thought the point of a practice race (or workout) was to do as much work as possible, whereas the point of an actual race was to do as little work as possible.

kensuf

there's so much irony here considering your guys are often quite guilty of this... one of them actually had the audacity to tell me "it's your job to chase eric down, we're blocking for him" once last summer.

mollusk

I know. But I bet what he really meant was "I don't want to do it" and using the team mate up the road as an excuse.

saratoga

We'll lead each other out for primes, but blocking? What's the point?

I can ride tempo for 1.5 hours on my own.

chicagogal

but people gotta practice team tactics somewhere. . . . seems to me like a training race isn't a bad venue for that.

gbot

My area's first 'weekly worlds' race was this week. Exactly the same thing happened in the 4's race. Thankfully, the guy they 'sent off the front' didn't seem strong enough to get more than a 30' gap on the field even with 6 of them blocking. And when the road opened up on one side of the course everyone just went around them.

Creakyknees

That's what we do - the weekly crits are nice labs for working on various skills, trying various moves etc. Everybody gets their chance to work hard too.

Ygduf

Cycling is super passive aggressive.

badhat

our worlds has everybody from pros to 3s and even a couple of strong 4s and there is no team allegiance.

its actually the mantra of the ride "dude, theres no teams on wednesday night worlds"

mattm

lol

Bob Dopolina 

The problem is that they use this same tactic at every race because they always have numbers. They don't need to practice.

They were clearly in it to win it.

Win what I'm not exactly sure.

Brian Ratliff

Lots of hand wringing about a "training" race. There was obviously something on the line.

Think about it: you attained your goal, to work hard, despite the "team tactics". So they got what they wanted: team tactics practice, and you and whoever else wanted to chase every attack got what they presumably want: training.

Sounds like what you are really wanting is a mano-a-mano chance to win "it". Apparently nobody quite knows what "it" is, but everyone agrees "it" is desirable to win. Which is how it should be. Otherwise it is just a passive aggressive hammer ride (you know the type: the guys who are "on" hammer, and the guys who are "off" claim to be just out enjoying the weather) not worthy of the term "race".

EDIT: I can see where you are coming from though if this is just your standard hammer ride. If it's a real training race, then I have no problem with people actually racing.

mattm

^yeah

Bob Dopolina 

It wasn't hand wringing it was a rant.

Blocking slows the race down and deprives others of a work-out if done well. We're also not at a level where we need to practice team tactics. It's the Weekly World's where the objective is to hammer the piss out of each other.

I got a lot of work in because I know how to work against blocking and I reeled in everything I could. I can't speak for others.

My point was that showing up in numbers to squash a training race is annoying and not something one does.

Thirstyman

did you actually tell them that or just rant about it here?

Bob Dopolina 

^^^ Just ranted here.

First, they arer a rival team and second when it comes to stuff like this I'm just the crazy foriegner.

I'm not going to go into it here but culturally, it just wouldn't work. I would be telling them to go against their coach's instructions (he was there with their team car) and it would only make problems later.

If they do it again one of their riders was on my team last year. I could back channel it through him but they won't get it. I struggle with these kinds of things occassionally so it's far better for me to come here and vent then it is to cause bad feelings and have no effect.

The only thing I could do would be to get a local to go through the same back channel but then they might never show up again and I don't want that. Having 8 more strong riders added to the mix raises the bar and, if done right, everyone will benefit.

I'll see how it plays out next week and if it is the same I'll have to figure out what to do.

I was in break with their team at a race a while ago and my first thought is to work off of their moves but that benefits me and not the group.

I'll know in a few days.

wanders

This really intrigues my hill-billy ass. Do you have anything on your blog (or elsewhere) that describes the cultural differences in more detail?

Thanks and good luck.

Bob Dopolina 

That would take a lot of esplainin'.

The short answer is that locals tend to default to 'that's how we do it here' mode which is fine for some things but I've always tried to coach riders and to run my teams so that any of them could show up at a group ride or race pretty much anywhere else in the world and be up to speed in terms of etiquette and expectations. In terms of cycling there really aren't a lot of older guys with experience to mentor the younger guys and to pass on the cycling culture.

Because of this my ideas often seem very foriegn to the Taiwanese and they very likely will reject them outright because they are different and because they come from a white guy. A case in point:

On our World's course there is a 120 degree, wide corner with double lanes in and out and no traffic - we have the whole road. I have been trying for more than a year to get these guys to swing wide and take the corner at speed. I have gone to the front so many times and set the line that it has become very predictable. There are a few guys who will follow my line but most guys slide to the inside, jam on the binders, crawl around the corner and then sprint out. They think it is much safer and I am crazy. I tell them that I am setting a smooth line and that it is their responsibility to follow it and how it is much more likely for there to be a crash doing it they way they do it.

Guess how the bulk of the guys race that fricken' corner?

When we say 'pearls before swine' the Chinese say 'playing piano for the cows'.

I've become quite the piano player.

bostongarden

As Allen Iverson said, we're talkin' about practice!! Folks should always have room to put the hammer down in Worlds.

Bob Dopolina 

Well...round 2 was on last night and it was more of the same but this time it was different.

As we rolled out from the meeting point to where we 'start' I chatted up a few riders from other teams and I had 1 team mate with me. I suggested to them that we take turns attacking the big team and try not to chase each other if possible.

This worked out pretty well.

The big team tried the same stuff but with much less success. We rode around their blocking and there was always someone willing to counter their moves. It made for some very fast and agressive training. I think a few light bulbs may have also lit up in the minds of some of the guys I have been training with and racing against for the last few years. I was like a mini clinic on tactics.

I jumped hard a little over 3km out from the finish just to see how long I could hold the group off as they were futzing around setting up for the sprint. I haven't downloaded my power numbers yet but I felt pretty good and then got swamped 150m from the line.

I'll try the same thing next week and see if I can't make it to with 100m. Who knows, maybe next time I'll bring a friend. It certainly isn't the smartest tactic but it gets whatever I have left out of me in a hurry!

Afterwards I said to a buddy that I hope this big team keeps showing up. The extra horse power raises the bar a notch and it gives me someone to ride against which is much more fun.