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TT on road bike

Old 12-06-11, 09:03 AM
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rotti
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TT on road bike

I'm interested in racing a few TT's next year, but I don't want to put down the money on a TT bike without racing a few first. Do most TT's have a road bike division? Also, I'm curious as to how many can break an hour on a road bike. I'm thinking of making this my goal, but not sure how realistic that would be. Right now, I could probably do 20mph for a flat to rolling TT on a road bike.
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Old 12-06-11, 09:12 AM
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Ok I'll bite. By break an hour on a road bike what exactly do you mean? A 40km tt? If so, yes I can.
Is there a seperate division? Sometimes yes it is called a Merckx TT - no aero equipment allowed.
My recommendation would be to give it a try, you can put on a simple pair of aero bars (clip ons) and go.
Don't overthink and complicate it, just race, you'll figure it out as you gain experience.
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Old 12-06-11, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
Ok I'll bite. By break an hour on a road bike what exactly do you mean? A 40km tt? If so, yes I can.
Is there a seperate division? Sometimes yes it is called a Merckx TT - no aero equipment allowed.
My recommendation would be to give it a try, you can put on a simple pair of aero bars (clip ons) and go.

Don't overthink and complicate it, just race, you'll figure it out as you gain experience.
c'mon man. everybody knows experience is overrated. if you want to make it to the cat4s, you need a climbing bike, a crit bike, a TT bike, a power meter, zipp303s, zipp202s, and a 70-eleventy!
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Old 12-06-11, 09:36 AM
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Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - you're going to spoil my secrets. I only need 9 more points - just ordered my new TT bike with Di2 and all the carbon bits I need to get me there...
Don't forget the time in the wind tunnel, coach, dietician, massage therapist, hooker, therapist, etc.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh 9 more points....
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Old 12-06-11, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
c'mon man. everybody knows experience is overrated. if you want to make it to the cat4s, you need a climbing bike, a crit bike, a TT bike, a power meter, zipp303s, zipp202s, and a 70-eleventy!
i thought you also needed a coach, a disc, normatec space legs (for recovery), and a computrainer. that should do it, right?
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Old 12-06-11, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rotti View Post
I'm interested in racing a few TT's next year, but I don't want to put down the money on a TT bike without racing a few first. Do most TT's have a road bike division? Also, I'm curious as to how many can break an hour on a road bike. I'm thinking of making this my goal, but not sure how realistic that would be. Right now, I could probably do 20mph for a flat to rolling TT on a road bike.
A lot
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Old 12-06-11, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SalsaPodio View Post
A lot
So it's really not that bike of a deal??? I'm not asking to call out people, hopefully thats not the way it's taken. I'm just wondering if it's a practicle goal without a tt bike
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Old 12-06-11, 10:48 AM
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ok, i'll bite. On a really flat course (net elevation gain/distance ~0.2%) with no aero equipment (maybe just a skin suit), a 70kg rider with reasonable CdA (0.32) requires 325W. That's 4.64 w/kg. If you are aero like Nate or RacerEx, you can get it down to 308W, but that's still 4.40w/kg. Of course, the slight downhills on the course might reduce the wattage required a bit, but not much.

http://www.analyticcycling.com/ForcesPower_Page.html. A really aero road rider can have a CdA of ~0.30

Many on this forum has 4.0w/kg for an hour as a goal. Those with 4.40w/kg are all Cat3 or well on their way to earning their cat3 by points. You get up to 4.64, you are into Cat2 territory.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rotti View Post
So it's really not that bike of a deal??? I'm not asking to call out people, hopefully thats not the way it's taken. I'm just wondering if it's a practicle goal without a tt bike
The bike doesn't make a huge amount of difference, but the position does. A TT bike will allow you to get into a position that generates significantly less drag. The bike and components will further impact this.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
Ok I'll bite. By break an hour on a road bike what exactly do you mean? A 40km tt? If so, yes I can.
Is there a seperate division? Sometimes yes it is called a Merckx TT - no aero equipment allowed.
My recommendation would be to give it a try, you can put on a simple pair of aero bars (clip ons) and go.
Don't overthink and complicate it, just race, you'll figure it out as you gain experience.
that makes the rider significantly more aero. You can probably go down from 0.32 to the high 0.2x with clip-on bars alone.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:15 AM
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Here's an old test done by some magazine. I believe this test was at a velodrome:

Originally Posted by ripped off
They put Uwe Peschel on a normal bike:

Needed Watts for Speed = 45 km/h :
Stevens San Remo bike with normal handlebar 465 Watts needed to go 45 km/h
Same bike Hands down the drops: 406 watts needed
Same bikeEaston Aeroforce bar: 369 Watts
Same bike Triathlon position (5.5 cm lower bar, saddle forwards): 360 Watts
Same bike Triathlon position (5.5 cm lower bar, saddle forwards) and
carbon Tri spoke wheels front and rear: 345 Watt

Cervelo + Tri spoke front 328 Watts
Cervelo + Tri spoke front + disk rear wheel : 320
Cervelo + Tri spoke front + disk rear wheel +Giro helmet: 317
Cervelo + Tri spoke front + disk rear wheel +Giro helmet + speed suit: 307
Cervelo + Tri spoke front + disk rear wheel +Giro helmet + speed suit +
saddle 3 cm further back: 293 Watts

From 465 to 293 watts... That's a lotta savings.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rotti View Post
So it's really not that bike of a deal??? I'm not asking to call out people, hopefully thats not the way it's taken. I'm just wondering if it's a practicle goal without a tt bike
I realize that was not your intention and wasn't taken that way. My opinion (which means very little) don't sweat the small stuff, just get out and ride/race, you will learn as you go. What works for you may be very different than what works for others.
Case in point, many disagree with my training methods, but it works for me. What you like for equipment may go against the grain but if it works for you that is all that matters.
Technology does not win you races, sure once you are at a certain level it will help but when you are starting out I believe it can be a distraction - put it this way - when you develop a big motor it doesn't matter what you ride.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Here's an old test done by some magazine. I believe this test was at a velodrome:
Moral of this? For $100 and a little tinkering you can save yourself 100 watts.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rotti View Post
So it's really not that bike of a deal??? I'm not asking to call out people, hopefully thats not the way it's taken. I'm just wondering if it's a practicle goal without a tt bike
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/108352902

That's from a 40k TT I did with a road bike. IAB, a skinsuit, and an aero helmet I borrowed. Take away the aero helmet and skinsuit and I bet it would still be under an hour.

I'm definitely not good at TTs either. My FTP was around 4.6 W/kg at the time.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Here's an old test done by some magazine. I believe this test was at a velodrome:
For me, going from a Specialized Transition to a Litespeed C1 with clip on's would cost me about 30 watts, or to do a sub hour 40K, I'd go from having to put out 3.47 w/kg to 3.98 w/kg.

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Old 12-06-11, 11:51 AM
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what's the CdA on that? 0.27 ish?
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Old 12-06-11, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by echappist View Post
what's the CdA on that? 0.27 ish?
I don't have the data that has the CdA, it's at home. I just have my notes that has raw drag numbers.
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Old 12-06-11, 12:50 PM
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Nate you don't happen to be from TN do you?
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Old 12-06-11, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by echappist View Post
ok, i'll bite. On a really flat course (net elevation gain/distance ~0.2%) with no aero equipment (maybe just a skin suit), a 70kg rider with reasonable CdA (0.32) requires 325W. That's 4.64 w/kg. If you are aero like Nate or RacerEx, you can get it down to 308W, but that's still 4.40w/kg. Of course, the slight downhills on the course might reduce the wattage required a bit, but not much.

http://www.analyticcycling.com/ForcesPower_Page.html. A really aero road rider can have a CdA of ~0.30

Many on this forum has 4.0w/kg for an hour as a goal. Those with 4.40w/kg are all Cat3 or well on their way to earning their cat3 by points. You get up to 4.64, you are into Cat2 territory.
Oh jesus, you need to stop posting for a bit.

To the OP, in my first 40k I broke 56 minutes (55:48) on a road bike with clip-on's, a cheap disc cover, and 404 front wheel at 309w. I think I also had a skin-suit and helmet. I'm not a small guy. It can be done cheaply.
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Old 12-06-11, 02:11 PM
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I think echap is having an affair with numbers...
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Old 12-06-11, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
Nate you don't happen to be from TN do you?
Nope, TX.
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Old 12-06-11, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
I think echap is having an affair with numbers...
shhh, don't tell my chemicals about it
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Old 12-06-11, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Nate552 View Post
Nope, TX.
Cool...
You reminded me of someone in that pic.
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Old 12-06-11, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
I think echap is having an affair with numbers...
Yup. I mean I can get nerdy and worked up about numbers, aerodynamics, etc, but he takes it to a whole new level.
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Old 12-06-11, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
Oh jesus, you need to stop posting for a bit.

To the OP, in my first 40k I broke 56 minutes (55:48) on a road bike with clip-on's, a cheap disc cover, and 404 front wheel at 309w. I think I also had a skin-suit and helmet. I'm not a small guy. It can be done cheaply.
Did you just clip on the bars and go or did you have to adjust the saddle height and position?
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