Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Racer Tech Thread

Old 10-18-15, 07:04 AM
  #2701  
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,469

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3372 Post(s)
Liked 370 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by Ygduf
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]150[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]175[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.97[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]200[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]225[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]250[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.79[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]275[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]300[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]325[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]350[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]375[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]400[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

that was my chart from 2010 when I had ~1.5 years of riding and no real training other than some long rides. I think if someone is spiking to 20mmol/l they are nearer to failure than someone who is at half that, given the distribution that 1 hour threshold plateaus much lower, as TR said. The numbers tend to spike parabolically upward once you exceed threshold.
How was that measured? Blood prick every time or did they leave a spot open?
That is Watts 1st column I assume. Did you have HR with that?
Doge is offline  
Old 10-18-15, 07:08 AM
  #2702  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge
How was that measured? Blood prick every time or did they leave a spot open?
That is Watts 1st column I assume. Did you have HR with that?
finger prick every damn time. here's the sheet, core temp, HR, power

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...thkey=CNGh1JoL
Ygduf is offline  
Old 10-18-15, 07:22 AM
  #2703  
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,469

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3372 Post(s)
Liked 370 Times in 252 Posts
Thanks for that. I had just plotted your numbers to see the graph. Got to add the HR to the graph. With the dip in lactate at 225W and 250W wondering about that. Measurement inaccuracy or body catching up. High VO2 - have you changed since training?

What lab did this? I doubt my son will sign up for the figure pricking. Hoping this will be out soon.
https://www.facebook.com/BSXathletics
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/product-tech/2014/10/20/new-device-offers-non-invasive-lactate-level-testing-athletes#.ViOcczZdGM9
Doge is offline  
Old 10-18-15, 07:42 AM
  #2704  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge
Thanks for that. I had just plotted your numbers to see the graph. Got to add the HR to the graph. With the dip in lactate at 225W and 250W wondering about that. Measurement inaccuracy or body catching up. High VO2 - have you changed since training?

What lab did this? I doubt my son will sign up for the figure pricking. Hoping this will be out soon.
https://www.facebook.com/BSXathletics
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/product-tech/2014/10/20/new-device-offers-non-invasive-lactate-level-testing-athletes#.ViOcczZdGM9
that data is from a test at the Stanford Human Performance Lab. My first and last volunteering for a test. It was miserable. I haven't had vO2 tested since, so no idea. I imagine I use more (my power is much higher now) o2 but the KG are higher too.

The best part was having to swallow the core thermometer, which was a long strand of plastic that you swallow and the lead hangs out your mouth... while you test. Not very comfortable. Then as the blood is tested you get your finger pricked every 3 minutes. I have bad circulation, so sometimes they had to try multiple fingers. I looked like ET at the end, with the tips of my fingers swollen and red.

I did a series of like 4 or 5 1-hour sessions, so 20 finger ****** each time doing a threshold TT on an ill-fitting computrainer stationary bike in a room without AC or a fan (they were testing core temp vs. some things). The pools of sweat were epic, and disgusting. My sweat rate was measured at 5lbs/hour.

I'd be interested in a test for my own curiosity now, but like most numbers they don't really do much so I haven't sought it out. You don't get a plaque for your vO2 number or LT power.

(also in regards to that vO2 number, I swear the apparatus was not allowing me to get the full volume of air. There was resistance on the inhalation through the 1-way valves that I wasn't expecting. I imagine I could have improved that number immediately if I had done vO2 testing a couple of times in a row and gotten acclimated to the process. But vO2 unfortunately was only in the first test as they selected candidates to continue into the other rounds)
Ygduf is offline  
Old 10-18-15, 09:07 AM
  #2705  
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,469

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3372 Post(s)
Liked 370 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by Ygduf
...I'd be interested in a test for my own curiosity now, but like most numbers they don't really do much so I haven't sought it out. You don't get a plaque for your vO2 number or LT power....
Numbers are what USAC selects juniors from and what colleges use to select rowers. Winning races is nice - numbers are what they use to select.
Doge is offline  
Old 10-18-15, 11:18 AM
  #2706  
fuggitivo solitario
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 9,107
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge
Numbers are what USAC selects juniors from and what colleges use to select rowers. Winning races is nice - numbers are what they use to select.
i'd agree with selection based off of number with the caveats being that a) unless the rider is picked for ITT abilities, the rider should also possess adequate bike handling skills and b) the selection should be less focused on VO2max values alone as those are great predictors for IP efforts but have less predictive power for efforts of longer duration.
echappist is offline  
Old 10-18-15, 01:28 PM
  #2707  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge
Numbers are what USAC selects juniors from and what colleges use to select rowers. Winning races is nice - numbers are what they use to select.
I gathered that from your first posts. I'm not in consideration for USAC Juniors, unfortunately, though I guess I do have all my college years of eligibility left! Let them know!
Ygduf is offline  
Old 10-18-15, 10:26 PM
  #2708  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,449
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 693 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/product-tech/2014/10/20/new-device-offers-non-invasive-lactate-level-testing-athletes#.ViOcczZdGM9
if it is anything like the moxy, it is very sensitive to placement. (i see that device is designed for the calf whereas the moxy can be used anywhere...and gives different results based on where it is placed.)

IOW, while convenient, non-invasive, and neat in that it can be used in the field, it may not yield the same quality of results as a lab test.
tetonrider is offline  
Old 10-19-15, 08:33 AM
  #2709  
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,562
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1850 Post(s)
Liked 669 Times in 423 Posts
Originally Posted by Ygduf
that data is from a test at the Stanford Human Performance Lab. My first and last volunteering for a test. It was miserable. I haven't had vO2 tested since, so no idea. I imagine I use more (my power is much higher now) o2 but the KG are higher too.

The best part was having to swallow the core thermometer, which was a long strand of plastic that you swallow and the lead hangs out your mouth... while you test. Not very comfortable. Then as the blood is tested you get your finger pricked every 3 minutes. I have bad circulation, so sometimes they had to try multiple fingers. I looked like ET at the end, with the tips of my fingers swollen and red.

I did a series of like 4 or 5 1-hour sessions, so 20 finger ****** each time doing a threshold TT on an ill-fitting computrainer stationary bike in a room without AC or a fan (they were testing core temp vs. some things). The pools of sweat were epic, and disgusting. My sweat rate was measured at 5lbs/hour.

I'd be interested in a test for my own curiosity now, but like most numbers they don't really do much so I haven't sought it out. You don't get a plaque for your vO2 number or LT power.

(also in regards to that vO2 number, I swear the apparatus was not allowing me to get the full volume of air. There was resistance on the inhalation through the 1-way valves that I wasn't expecting. I imagine I could have improved that number immediately if I had done vO2 testing a couple of times in a row and gotten acclimated to the process. But vO2 unfortunately was only in the first test as they selected candidates to continue into the other rounds)
I participated in a similar study a couple years ago, but without the blood tests. My internal temp was taken with a disposable pill that emitted a signal to a device held against my body. At some point, I pooped it out, or at least I assume I did. Who knows, it may still be in there.

And the VO2 test was awful. By the end, I felt like I was drowning trying to breathe through that apparatus.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 10-19-15, 07:23 PM
  #2710  
Senior Member
 
hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 3,888
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge
90mm vs. 68mm I think its just better.
digging this up for follow up ....

Has this setup been good for Jr? Also, which of the outboard options did you go with:

Outboard basic $74
Outboard angle contact (what is that??) $94
Outboard ceramic $125
Outboard ceramic zero $175

Thx
hack is offline  
Old 10-19-15, 07:30 PM
  #2711  
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,469

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3372 Post(s)
Liked 370 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by hack
digging this up for follow up ....

Has this setup been good for Jr? Also, which of the outboard options did you go with:

Outboard basic $74
Outboard angle contact (what is that??) $94
Outboard ceramic $125
Outboard ceramic zero $175

Thx
Outboard Ceramic (bro deal). Actually just getting new ceramic bearings in it now - bike at shop (best way to keep him off it). New bearings in the $50 range.
Yea - we think it is better. It is gut level thinking. Next year bike comes with a Specialized BB30 and we will likely pay to put a Shimano setup on it. I'm not 100% yet on that.

I was very disappointed the DuraAce rings came apart mid-race, but overall we think they are hard to beat (we buy them when others do not cost us).
Doge is offline  
Old 10-19-15, 07:32 PM
  #2712  
Senior Member
 
hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 3,888
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge
Outboard Ceramic (bro deal). Actually just getting new ceramic bearings in it now - bike at shop (best way to keep him off it). New bearings in the $50 range.
Yea - we think it is better. It is gut level thinking. Next year bike comes with a Specialized BB30 and we will likely pay to put a Shimano setup on it. I'm not 100% yet on that.

I was very disappointed the DuraAce rings came apart mid-race, but overall we think they are hard to beat (we buy them when others do not cost us).
Thanks ... looking to setup my Venge with a GXP so I can run my quarq. Seems like the Praxis setup is good, but limits you if you ever need to change bearings.
hack is offline  
Old 10-19-15, 07:34 PM
  #2713  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,916

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 878 Post(s)
Liked 538 Times in 236 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge
Outboard Ceramic (bro deal). Actually just getting new ceramic bearings in it now - bike at shop (best way to keep him off it). New bearings in the $50 range.
Yea - we think it is better. It is gut level thinking. Next year bike comes with a Specialized BB30 and we will likely pay to put a Shimano setup on it. I'm not 100% yet on that.

I was very disappointed the DuraAce rings came apart mid-race, but overall we think they are hard to beat (we buy them when others do not cost us).
I've thought about doing that. I've gone through 4 pairs of bb30 bearings this year :-|
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 10-19-15, 07:34 PM
  #2714  
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,469

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3372 Post(s)
Liked 370 Times in 252 Posts
What the shop says is that Praxis expands in the middle and for the Venge - that is bad.
Doge is offline  
Old 10-19-15, 09:54 PM
  #2715  
commu*ist spy
 
spectastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: oregon
Posts: 4,459
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd
Not normal. Hopefully it's a tension issue and not a bad rim.

No issues whatsoever with mine. The key, as with all carbon rim brake rims, is to use the proper pads, and keep the braking surfaces clean.
Originally Posted by tetonrider
wow....what kind of wheels did you get?

i ride in the mountains all the time and have had carbon clinchers for 6 years now.....no sign of wear on the brake tracks.

seems unusual.
Originally Posted by Ygduf
agree. not normal. even the old ****ty clincher rims didn't wear out as much as they were just too soft
Originally Posted by tetonrider
what rims are these?

IMO, carbon clinchers are one area worth spending the $$ as the rim has the important job of holding the tire in place. i've seen too many warped brake tracks....

also, are you using the pads recommended by your manufacturer? i know people like to experiment, but most manufacturers have a whitelist of approved pads. some rims are harder than others, and using a hard pad with a soft rim can initially provide a great experience but can result in excessive wear.

that said, i don't really see people wearing out brake tracks in normal road conditions. muddy CX races? different story.
brought it to a shop. they didn't see anything wrong with it. I took a closer look, and it seems like the extra rubbing is happening closer to where the stem is. perhaps that's just because there's extra mass there, because I can feel the extra weight of the stem when I rotate the wheel by itself.
spectastic is offline  
Old 10-20-15, 06:55 PM
  #2716  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,449
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 693 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
I've thought about doing that. I've gone through 4 pairs of bb30 bearings this year :-|
something's wrong....
tetonrider is offline  
Old 10-20-15, 07:21 PM
  #2717  
OMC
 
revchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by tetonrider
something's wrong....
BB30 is what's wrong. (Says the guy with two bikes with BB30...)

A friend just replaced the creaking factory-installed BB/PF30 bearings in his Peter Sagan-replica Venge with a Praxis BB. The original bearings had <500 miles. He got the idea from my bike, an Allez Comp Race that came stock with the Praxis BB and makes nary a sound. I know there's potentially a difference due to carbon vs. aluminum BBs. We just installed it today, it will be interesting to see if it's as quiet as mine. BTW, installation was WAY easier than standard bearings.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck

Demain, on roule!
revchuck is offline  
Old 10-20-15, 08:45 PM
  #2718  
Senior Member
 
hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 3,888
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Local shop has a couple new Venges on display with the new super wide Rovals. Funky looking cockpit, but the wheels look sharp.
hack is offline  
Old 10-20-15, 11:33 PM
  #2719  
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,079

Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by hack
Local shop has a couple new Venges on display with the new super wide Rovals. Funky looking cockpit, but the wheels look sharp.
I saw one last week at my local shop. They sure look weird with a stack of those aero spacers under the stem.
Dunbar is offline  
Old 10-21-15, 07:24 AM
  #2720  
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 4,850

Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge
What the shop says is that Praxis expands in the middle and for the Venge - that is bad.
I'm using a PF30 TorqTite from Enduro on my PF30 bike now.

Same AC/Ceramic bearings as my BB30 setup, but in a threaded aluminum shell.

Dead silent, great bearing life.

And, I'm guessing my MTBs see much worse conditions than any and all road bikes in this forum.
Duke of Kent is offline  
Old 10-21-15, 07:34 AM
  #2721  
Ninny
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I don't quite understand how those things work. It looks like it is a metal shell that holds the BB30 bearings outside the frame rather than inside? Doesn't that add ~20mm to the BB width? How can the existing crank spindle be long enough? Obviously some lack of knowledge on my part.
globecanvas is offline  
Old 10-21-15, 07:36 AM
  #2722  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,916

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 878 Post(s)
Liked 538 Times in 236 Posts
Originally Posted by tetonrider
something's wrong....
#1 & 2 were due to hellacious winter, the second one so bad the bearing galvanized to the axle and had to be cracked off, #3 due to a wicked hard crash, #4 due to mileage. I don't dislike bb30, it's just a pain in the ass to replace the bearings.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 10-21-15, 07:47 AM
  #2723  
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 4,850

Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by globecanvas
I don't quite understand how those things work. It looks like it is a metal shell that holds the BB30 bearings outside the frame rather than inside? Doesn't that add ~20mm to the BB width? How can the existing crank spindle be long enough? Obviously some lack of knowledge on my part.
N

No. It replaces standard PF30 BBs, which are nylon or metal sleeves that simply press into the frame. They can move around, though, which can cause creaking.

The TorqTite and similar models thread together. You basically bolt each half to an interior sleeve. Once on, no movement, no sound.
Duke of Kent is offline  
Old 10-21-15, 07:53 AM
  #2724  
Ninny
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Ah, I get it. I see they also make adapters from BB30 to wider-shell BBs like Shimano. I thought it was just one product they made, that somehow converted BB30 to some sort of external BB30, didn't get it.
globecanvas is offline  
Old 10-21-15, 10:45 AM
  #2725  
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,469

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3372 Post(s)
Liked 370 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by Duke of Kent
...
And, I'm guessing my MTBs see much worse conditions than any and all road bikes in this forum.
It is not any of the ambient conditions that cause trouble. It is the hose jet spray at the BB and in the seat post. For some reason, the mechanics are into soap and water. I can go years on my stuff with no issues - I don't spray them, but leave my son's (several) bikes with a mechanic and they come back clean and trashed.
Doge is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.