Dang, kid, you'd b**ch if they hung you with a new rope! :D

I'd like to see a deeper comparison of the differences in rolling resistance of different sizes of the same tire, ditto with regular butyl, thin butyl and latex tubes in a fixed set of tires.

I got a couple of them S-works turbo tires and I think I actually prefer them to gp4000 sIIs. They feel like they're pretty much on par as far as rolling resistance goes but they take bumps more comfortably and their roundness makes them corner like a tubular.

Need to see how durable they are and how long they last, but initial first week judgment is I think I found a new race tire.

Now you tell me. I just bought a couple GP4000S II yesterday.

But they're more training tires that might occasionally see a race than the other way around. I only have one road bike and one pair of wheels.

They're really close in feel, the Turbo feels like it can dive into corners a bit...err...rounder...if that makes sense. Maybe with a bit more precision? It's not like the GP4000s II won't rail any line you tell it to nail. It's just a personal preference thing. I also got 2 turbos for like $20 less than you can get the gp4000 on merlin cycles which helps with the perception haha

The S-Works Turbo tires are designed by the same people who did the GP4000S and S II. Specialized poached them from Continental. Not surprisingly, the resulting tires are pretty damn good. Personally I think Schwalbe is also doing some pretty amazing work. The Schwalbe Ones I've been riding all season are pretty amazing tires. Reportedly, the Pro One is even better.

Until the new rolling resistance tests come out I'm sticking with GP2k's. There hasn't been a test (that I know of) in 2 years so hopefully something comes out soon.

The Schwalbe Ones seemed fast but I flatted twice on a ride and now they're collecting dust.

Thanks!

The TT GP seems great but with the Sarlacc pits around here I'm not sure if its worthwhile. Even in races we have a ton of puncture from the thorns.

That's stunningly irrational.

I use butyl tubes in my road bike but latex in my track. I still pump my road bike up before every ride, so I guess latex would be fine. I always heard latex were more likely to puncture though. Is that not actually true?

Hm. The All Weathers I had were probably similar to the AW3, near the bottom of the list.

I'm running Maxxis Refuse tires, although I don't ride outside anymore. At 60 TPI I'm guessing they're also pretty low on the list. At least I got the folding version. I think.

At about 20w power delta per tire I'm looking at 40w at 40 kph? That's huge. If my average power for a crit is 160-180w and we do about 25 mph, and I can reduce my power needs just with rolling resistance (something not affected by aero/drafting) by 40w...

Right now I'm not in a position to be buying tires and such but still, in the future, I'll have to do some experimenting.

I tend to think it's the other way around.

Going from gatorskins to race tires the difference is noticeable. It feels similar to going from a front box rim to a 30-40mm aero front wheel. That is a total best case scenario though, gatorskins roll like sand paper slides.

i use the vittoria corsas on wide rims (pacenti) with latex tubes for racing. i've never ridden tubulars, the ride is like butter, i love it. would never train on those tires though, way too fragile. i've got some of the new vittorias with graphene, looking forward to trying those out.

i prefer to train on very cheap and heavy tires.

The Refuses are pretty horrible. They feel like tires you take off a 20" Walmart bike or something, tires feel like they're made of petrified wood. The tread seemed grippy using my fingertip friction scale, hence I bought them.

At the same time I don't think I've every had one puncture. I've had the rim strip migrate (hence I have double rim strips in my two sets of wide clinchers) but that's it.

I'm going to look for tubular rolling resistance (I know, glue, etc all variables hard to control) and if it's close then fine, but if not then it'll be something to consider.

The thing that gets me is that rolling resistance is totally independent of aero/drafting and I didn't realize just how much power it took. It's something that I can't influence by being a better rider. I'm like a low HP race car (with a massive nitrous boost). I can't be giving away that kind of power for nothing. If I averaged 160w at a race and say 100w are from rolling resistance, it means I only spent 60w dealing with speed/wind. If I'm giving away 40w and I only use about 60w to move forward, that's 67% of my average power output used to propel me forward.

(60w seems low but still, if rolling resistance is 50w/tire, then that's that.)

GP 4k's have never steered me wrong. Love them.

If you run over something that goes through the tread and flat protection layer of your tire, it's going to pierce your tube as well. I use the Specialized thin butyl tubes because I work in a Specialized shop and get them at cost, plus they can be patched. I've got a bunch of standard butyl tubes as well and use them when I need to.

That's a good point. I guess maybe it was from people pinch flatting? Latex is more susceptible to pinch flats and flats from not having a good rim tape job I think.

I think it's the opposite. For punctures, latex is stretchy enough to deform around something poking partway through the tire, where butyl pops. I don't think latex is more likely to pinch flat either. But latex tubes are more prone to user error when installing, and getting a fold of the tube pinched between the tire and the rim.

Latex pros: lighter, less likely to puncture, lower rolling resistance.

Latex cons: price, somewhat harder to install (you just need to pay attention), can't be patched on the road, longevity (they break down over time).

Makes sense. Doesn't matter since I'm not racing right now anyway and I'm so slow a few watts won't help.

That being said, reading about tires and tubes today has led me down the rabbit hole of tire pressure. I've always run 120 front and rear (I'm fat, 220 lbs right now). It looks like lower pressures might roll just as well, and corner better and be less jittery and have less losses from bouncing up and down and stuff.

I run 140 I think on the track, from what I remember. The track is probably different though because there isn't any cornering and the surface is pretty smooth.

it looks like the gp4000 ii beats the corsa cx in rolling resistance, but the higher tpi on the corsa would mean better grip on the road, which would be super useful on a wet, or technical course.

i read that latex can have a pretty long shelf life, so long as you keep it out of the sun and extreme temperatures.

moisture is also bad for latex.

Jeepers yeah, you'd probably feel like a super hero with 20-30 extra watts saved, that'd be like 10-15% power savings for you :)

Considering the amount of discussion here about gluing numbers, I was curious if anyone noticed quintana during the TT yesterday?

He had a transparent plastic/vinyl square adhered to his speed suit with his number under it. Interesting contrast to some of the riders like Mollema whose number was torn loose at the bottom from the get go.

It's not 'adhered' to the suit: it's built into the suit. It's a sleeve for numbers. I think it's the future of speedsuit design.