anyone have experience with copied frames, the ones with good reputations. how are they?

Those disc covers are well made. I used one in one of the two TTs I have ever done.

got sufficiently pissed that i ordered a new cassette and 50/34 chainrings (have a new chain that i'll be installing as soon as I get a chance). please let this fix the problem.

Im looking for some 25c tubulars. In the past I've run evo cx's. Any reason to look elsewhere? They will be mounted to Enve Classic's with a 22mm width if it matters.

Depends how much money you have to spend.

I would like to keep costs reasonable. The 23 and 25mm Vittoria's are around $70 or so on Amazon, so certainly under $100 per tire. That makes the complete swap about $250 with glue ect. I don't want to spend much more than that for tires

You can get those for $50-55 each from Ribble. If your max is $100 then you can add Veloflex to the mix as well as Conti Competitions.

I currently race on Corsa CX III 25mm although the wheel set I just bought comes with Specialized Turbo Allround 24mm.

how much does a tt bike help you compared to a regular road bike, and an aero road bike with clip-on handlebars, aero helmet, deep wheels, etc?

how close can you get to a real tt bike with a venge, aero bars, an aero helmet, and wind booties?

I'm comparing my tt time to that of the 1/2/3 field, and my time would've ranked almost dead last. I used a regular road bike, regular helmet, mavic ksyrium elites, and I leaned my forearm on the handlebars to narrow my shoulders as much as possible. it was a 3 mile tt, with a strong tailwind. I averaged around 27 mph.

^^ a couple mph. the flatter the course the more the gain

a couple mph from the regular road bike to the tt bike or with a tricked out venge with all the accessories to the tt bike?

Aero vs non-aero frame is worth a few seconds over 40k at most. Clip-ons are worth much more regardless of the aeroness of the frame. The major benefit of a TT bike is that it allows your body to get into a much more aero position than is possible with a road bike frame, which is worth more than aerobars and aero frame combined.

there is too much "depends" to give a flat number.

My son has a tricked out Venge - no clip-on bars, uses an aero helmet and 50mm profile 20/24 thin spoke wheels, no water bottle. He also has a FELT DA2 with tri front and disc rear. He does TTs on both. He also TTs the FELT with the spoked wheels. For TTs on the VENGE we flip the seat post forward and tip is 4-5 cm behind BB (not always UCI legal).

On a flat 30 min TT - about 1-2 min difference. I don't think the clip-ons make that big a difference as he rests his forearms on the bar tops.
On a hill about the same and if its more than 3-4% the Venge is faster. Down a hill the felt with disc/tri is MUCH faster (3-4MPH).

Position matters too. A good TT position is different than a good road position. The muscle development is slightly different.

If average speeds are going to be under 25 - Venge is a good choice. 25-30 - likely the TT bike. 30-40+ - TT bike for sure.


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just a few seconds? tunnel data I know, and it's specialized.. but the result is more than just a few seconds.

also, the main difference is moving the seat forward and lowering the handlebars, right? I don't see why that can't be replicated on a road bike.

you answered your own question

my e.g. on a 5.5mi 2% climb, my merckx is about the same as a my TT bike. on the 5.5mi 2% decline, my merckx is 1 minute slower. the differences are at like 24mph and 32ish mph, respectively.

Teammate uses those on Enve clinchers (not sure of model) and wins a lot on them. The Veloflex Master 25 is closer to a 24mm and maybe a bit less flat prone.

You can't get the bars as low, or the seat as far forward, on a road bike.

I've had good luck with the evo cx's in regards to flats, but the Veloflex's look pretty nice. Might give them a go just because. Didn't we have someone on here that owned a tire site or something?

If he wants tubulars, then PR/Arenberg are what he wants. Same tire, different colored sidewall.

Unless I misread his post.

I misread the tubular part. For 25s - FMBs give a great ride. If dry riding go silks. I bought the Vittoria Cronos CS 24mm this year and my son was plagued by flats. Teammates still had flats on the Vittoria cx in same races, so we were just plagued by flats. My son went all season (2,000 miles racing) last year on the FMBs 25mm and had a race flat from a number pin and post race flat from riding through junk - but in general - pretty good. Anything is good compared to this year. I bought the FMBs again. Son trains on the Veloflex criterium and Arenberg both in 23. The Veloflex 25s are heavier, but hard to fault them as an all around tire and IMO better than the Vittoria.

FMB's for under $100 each without a bro deal?

Well...sure, if you go visit with cash.

Competition 25 Cx is EUR83.60 @ current rate USD89.74

But then you have the exchange fees and he likes money wired and shipping.
François Marie Boyaux

Well...sure, if you go visit with cash.

Competition 25 Cx (cotton) is EUR83.60 @ current rate USD89.74

But then you have the exchange fees and he likes money wired and shipping.
François Marie Boyaux

$105 @ WCC $5 less than their price for Veloflex Arnenberg http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mm5/...egory_Code=TTV

Weak sauce argument.

Where did they mention the wind speed? 40K @ 20mph is quite different than 40K @ 26mph