Originally Posted by Bekologist
don't get me wrong, viper,i'm real happy for you, but you're not exactly offering up vanguard advice about layering if you're still stuck in your Denali fleece and a goretex shell. That layering system is so totally 80's!
Just because I own and still use a Denali doesn't mean I don't own and use the new soft shells as well. Even though I own 3 new soft shells, the Denali still works and still has it place in my closet for when ever I need it.
I layer with the soft shells as well, is that vanguard enough?
Originally Posted by Bekologist
a Denali jacket packs up (if you decide you don't need to wear it under your GORETEX body condom) about the size of a pony keg. not to mention the limitations of wearing a bulky fleece jacket and a waterproof for aerobic sports. you see a lot of cross country and backcountry skiers in denali fleece and goretex. Wait, let me take that back, you see lots of greenhorn cross country and backcountry skiers in denali jackets and goretex.
Read how I mainly use it in my previous post. I have said, I ski and bike in my new soft shells, however I'll still pack along a hard shell, because that's call being prepared. You should know that....
Originally Posted by Bekologist
how you can go about recommending this system is insulting enough to my backwoods sensibilities to call you on it. sorry. You keep pimping the fleece and the gore-tex for active sports, and i will keep disagreeing with you.
I think what's really insulting you, is you have this wealth of back country knowledge, that for the most part is "Vanguard Thinking", yet there are still legions of people that are willing to stand up and say, new tech is all fine and dandy, but is not really required to play outside, the old stuff can work just as well too. Even from old "green horns" like myself, that owns all the new stuff, but can still embrace the old stuff too. To me one of the marks of good outdoor equipment is how long it remains useful.
Graham Hoyland Climbed Everest with old stuff, not requiring "Vanguard Thinking"
There are many ways to dress for the outdoors, people do this differently, and you really should understand this, in spite of what you or I think. I don't pimp just fleece and Goretex, I just say what works for me be it fleece, Goretex, uncoated nylon, polyester.... etc.
I think when it comes down to it, your continual barbs at me is because you think you know it all, and it pisses you off that somebody else can be comfortable sitting on a pumpkin, when you say we need loungers to comfortable. That, and You have been shown equally effective alternatives, and been proved wrong on a few issues we have debated now....
Again, I own and use new softshells, but I'll always pack along a hard shell. On a ski trip in Banff, I was wearing just a softshell for Skiing (Patagonia Figure 4). I was way too exposed feeling with this jacket, I had to put a hard shell on top to be comfortable. I skied the whole day afterward in comfort. If this does not suit your "Vanguard Thinking" then so be it, I'd rather be comfortable and warm, than cold and miserable because you tell me I should dress a certain way to be "Vanguard"
I ride to work everyday in -30C, there is no way I'm wearing just a softshell, no matter what you tell me... That's just too cold for my likings.
I have XC skied in soft shells, however I'll ski more with just 2 layers of thinner fleece, and a polypro base layer. I find XC Skiing with in the softshell is just too warm and restrictive feeling. For this the hard shell works as a better alternative, because it packs small enough to fit in a fanny pack, rather than one of my hard shell jackets. It's nice to have to throw on when I stop for a break or lunch.