I am sympathetic to Rivendell's practical bike fit philosophy and retro-crabbiness, as opposed to the "let's put normal people on race bikes with all the latest tech" M.O. of most of the road bike industry. You just cannot **** with lugs (with non-ornate paint please), full fenders, a brooks and nitto noodles up high on a pearl stem. To repeat what landgolier said, though, like lots of people in the cycling world, Riv just seem to get a touch too far into a mentality of us vs them instead of "live and let live".