Originally Posted by skinny
True, tires are another component of shock absorption/suspension, but, I know you probably won't believe me when I tell you this, but I can tell the difference in shock absorption between a 4x and 3x wheel, at least if I build both wheels to my standards. No wheel is entirely rigid in the plane of the wheel, no matter the design, just as no structure is entirely rigid. Flex is an inherent characteristic of any structure. All well made bicycle wheels take this into account and exploit it to enhance the characteristics the wheels are being built for.
If you can feel it, then you're a lot more sensitive than me
I know it's there, but I've never been able to feel, even on the same course, same day, same bike, same tires/pressure, and four vastly different wheelsets. I'm insensitive
Originally Posted by skinny
The lateral forces or off-axis forces as you call them are relevant, but as knowledge of the way wheels work as grown, it has become clearer that lateral forces, or the forces you would encounter in a turn, are less signifcant than the power forces, pedaling, in whether a wheel is designed with radial or cross spoking. It used to be thought that 4x wheels were stronger because their x was extended out more towards the center of the wheel, effectively transfering lateral forces more through the wheel, adding strength. This is true to an extend, especially when cornering, but the majority of torque/energy lost in a wheel is lost through wrap up.
I see our disconnect here. I'm not talking about lateral forces to the wheel, I'm talking about lateral forces to a
spoke. You were saying that the spokes work like rods to move the rim around, but I'm saying that spokes are not stiff enough to move a rim around, they can only pull the rim around under tension -- off-radial tension.
Say you have a wheel completely laced up, then unlace one spoke, but thread it back into its nipple, so it's not attached to the hub. Get a pair of vice grips and lock onto the spoke head. Try making the wheel spin by just twisting the vice grips. You have to follow the wheel around as it turns, so the spoke remains radial (points to the axle center). If you try any acceleration worthy of an actual ride, you will twist a hook or spiral into the spoke before the wheel even gets halfway around.