12XU:

Yes, frame builders should be doing extensive fittings, but....only because they are masters at building frames doesn't mean they know the first thing about fitting. I found seven knows what they are talking about. Their philosophy is that you will ultimately ride the bike so if you want something lower/higher than they'll accomodate you. Am I biased toward seven? No! BTW, most of the 8 weeks are because of paint. Also, I'm a little worried when I hear of custom builders that are spitting out frames with only a couple of guys in the shop. 8 weeks isn't a ton of time. 1 and 2 years are (Vanilla). I originally wanted to see if Hollands (from Maryland) was still building frames and wanted one of his, but he's quit in the past few years. This is not going to be my 'ultimate' bike, otherwise I would have waited a year for it. Also, I'm not worried about straying from the 'big' names. I also don't want to do a fitting over the phone, since most small builders won't have any presence in an LBS. On the other hand, for my 'ultimate' bike, I was willing to fly to Italy for a fitting. So, 12XU, I really don't think you know who you are talking to. Some of the stuff you say is like preaching to the choir. The other stuff doesn't compute with why I went with Seven. And no, you won't disparage my purchase. Unfortunately there will always be those who have negative thoughts. Keep those for the really "BIG" names (TREK, Specialized, etc.). That's justifyable.