Well I came on and complained about the B-17 after my first ride and told of what hell it was. Well I gave it another try the day after with two pairs of cycleing pants on (I was still sore). That seemed almost ok. Then the next day no cycleing pants just long johns and jeans. I hate to admit it but I think I may have been too fast to judge the saddle. I've noticed a dent on each side and wrinkles in the leather there on the surface and can feel the indentation with my hand. It's actually starting to feel good! I can't believe that this slight change on the surface of the saddle can make that much difference but it seems to. I only have about 10 miles on it, its mounted on my mountain bike because the weather here stinks and Im not taking the road bike out yet. So in other words, Im sorry for the bashing earilier.