Originally Posted by Helmet Head
There is no question that painted lines are pretty good at keeping drivers on one side or the other of that line. In fact, that's why bike lanes are so good at collecting debris The reason bike lanes are so good at at collecting debris, is because painted lines are so good at keeping same-direction drivers out of the bike lanes, regardless of whether cyclists are present or not.
Now, one might think that because bike lane stripes are so good at keeping same-direction drivers out of the bike lanes, regardless of whether cyclists are present or not, that they are good at keeping drivers from hitting cyclists. Yet, there is no evidence of bike lanes having that effect. Possible explanations for that include:
1. While bike lanes are generally good at keeping same-direction drivers out of the bike lane, they are not perfect. In particular, drivers who choose to attend to distractions sometimes drift into bike lanes (or shoulders).
This contradicts your previous statement of lines keeping drivers out and generating debris
2. Bike lanes may also be effective at making cyclists up ahead seem relatively irrelevant to drivers approaching from behind, and, so, drivers are more likely to feel it is safe to choose to attend to a distraction (that may result in a drift) even though a cyclist is up ahead, if that is cyclist is in a bike lane
And the proof of this is? You mean in your opinion bike lanes yada yada yada.
3. Bike lanes encourage unusual/unexpected behavior at intersections, particularly when the cyclist is going straight and the from-behind faster motorist is turning right.[/COLOR]
So does riding vehicularly in a WOL. Stupid drivers are stupid drivers.
4. Bike lanes encourage cyclists to ride in space where motorists are normally not paying as much attention, including motorists just up ahead who are about to move across the cyclist's path.
WOLs don't do this? On a 40+ mph arterial what is the alternative?
5. Because bike lanes are not real lanes (which are constantly swept clean by vehicular traffic and do not require street sweepers to be kept clean), and so readily collect debris, bicyclists tend to not use bike lanes normally. In particular, bicyclists tend to ride at the bike lane edge, often encroaching on the adjacent vehicular lane.
I can't buy this one. We should avoid country roads then and any road which has windblown debris in it by your reasoning. Hygenic is not a problem for me. Major debris that will affect me also resides in WOLs due to its degree of hazard (boards stuff like that, little rocks and things do not bug me).
6. Bike lanes make motorists feel more comfortable in passing cyclists, because they are separated by a stripe (the cyclist is seen to be less likely to suddenly swerve into their path). Thus, motorists are less likely to adjust their lateral position when overtaking a cyclist a bike lane is present.
Absolutely. I think when traffic is working everyone is comfortable with it. that is what rules are for. That doesn't mean people should not be alert, but comfortable and not slamming on the brakes and causing rear end collisions due to suddenly having to decellerate 30 -40 mph to get around a cyclists is going to create a hazard behind the car, a hazard which would not exist if the driver could predict the actions of the cyclist as he can predict the actions of every other vehicle on the road which is using a "lane".
7. The combination of bike lanes causing cyclists often to encroach on the adjacent lane, and bike lanes often discouraging overtaking motorists (including those driving near the right side of their lane) to not adjust, makes close passes, and even sideswipes, more likely.
I don't see how this differs from WOLs. If you have to dodge large debris you have to dodge large debris and car tires are not going to sweep it away for you.
8. Because cyclists believe the stripe protects them, they are likely to be less vigilant when riding in bike lanes.
Which psychological study are you basing this on?
In short, a bike lane stripe is not like any other lane stripe, primarily because of intersections, but also because of how bike lanes seem to be seen and treated more like shoulders than real lanes.
I'm not asking you to agree, but please at least understand what the objections are.
I hope this helps you with the trouble you're having seeing the "painted line does not protect you" argument. If not, please let me know.
WOLs are also treated as shoulders.
My post covered a lot more ground that the debris issue, which is merely incidental.
On this point I concede. You are right and I was hasty in my reply earlier.