Actually, I was trying to be polite there. You have asked a very stupid question, not because you want to know the answer but out of a desire to stir things up and attract attention to yourself. Bikeforums members have taken the time to give you many good answers, which you ignore. You are being willfuly stupid, and wasting everyone's time. This is borderline trolling.

Be a ****tard if you want Karsten, but don't act all hurt and surprised when someone calls you on it.