Thread: Frugal Living
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Old 06-21-07, 08:26 AM
  #192  
makeinu
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Originally Posted by vulpes
In the hypothetical utopian society I have been describing on this forum, money would be completely eliminated as would markets and the profit motive. In a society based on democratically controlled production for use (as opposed to for profit) and equal free access to the goods and services produced, money has no purpose. And competition would be replaced by cooperation. Certainly some form of tracking and accounting would still be necessary but everything would be accounted for in kind rather than in the terms monetary value. In fact the means to do this already exists. Economist Wassily Leontief was awarded a Nobel prize in 1973 for formulating a methodology for input-output analysis based on just such a quantitative basis, partly inspired by the Marxian and Walrasian analysis of general equilibrium via interindustry flows.
But it requires time and effort to democratically control those resources. People have to analyze and decide which course of action to take. Then there needs to be a mechanism for resolving disagreement. Money is one such mechanism. What mechanism are you proposing to resolve disagreement and how does it entail less overhead than the money system?

Originally Posted by vulpes
Laws exist mainly to protect property and propery rights. The vast majority of crimes are crimes against property and are primarily due to the uneven distribution of wealth in capitalist society. In a classless, money-less, society of common ownership and free access, crime against property is not even a possibility and there will be no motive for property related crimes against individuals. Common ownership would not include personal possessions, but why would anyone steal something they can easily get for themselves for free? Killing someone or doing violence to them to get their money or collect on a life insurance policy would certainly be a thing of the past. Drug trafficking and drug related crimes will disappear with the profit motive. The drug lords and dealers aren't in it for their health, after all. The socioeconomic root causes of street gang formation and violence will disappear as well. Crimes against humanity like mass murder, forced labor, and imposed starvation perpetrated by capitalist governments and corporations will finally come to an end once and for all. Generally accepted custom will replace criminal law. Censure by the community will replace adjudication. Procedural rules for the administration of the democratic system and the smooth operation of society will of course be required, but laws to protect property and the hegemony of the owning class will go by the wayside along with their police, lawyers, judges, courts and prisons. Litigiousness and the odd notion of intellectual property will give way to freely sharing ideas for the common good.
Once again, you're very keen on pointing out what would be done away with, but fail to specify what would need to be done. The fact that violation of ownership has been the biggest source of lawlessness under capitalism does not mean that there could not be a bigger source of lawlessness under your system. What will ensure that the procedural rules for the administration are followed? What of those that don't follow generally accepted custom despite censure by the community? What of those that might seek to overthrow the system in favor of capitalism? What of those that do harm unintentionally? For example, a scientist seeking to run a nuclear reactor for the good of his community might be transporting radioactive materials across the continent, possibly killing thousands in the process. Who will stop him? The community could tell him that he is killing thousands, but he may think the ends justify the means. His whole local community may agree with him. What if the world community formally disagrees by democratic vote? How would their decision be enforced?

You assume consensus for all mankind, but almost any system imaginable would work under such an assumption (after all, how could you argue there is a problem is everyone agrees there are no problems?). Eliminating capitalism will not eliminate disagreement. In fact, disagreement and competing interest is the beast that capitalism seeks to tame. All the vices, sacrifices, and compromises of capitalism are made in an attempt to tame this beast. How would your system tame it?

Yes, there is an overabundance of the resources needed to meet most basic human needs, but there isn't an overabundance of everything. Scarcity will always be a reality for some resources and that will inevitably lead to disagreement.
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