The point of the other thread or the point of the group buy? I had the idea to do a group buy, and that wasn't my point.
You can refer to this post here to see where I first mentioned the idea to do a group buy:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...3&postcount=94

It sounds like you just really want some MKS doubles, which is fine. Power to you. But now you seem like you are also and trying to derail my intent for this group buy, which is less than cool. In fact, you are sugesting that we not even make available the thing I suggested we buy.

I'd have zero problems with a group buy for Toshi singles and doubles, but lets not try to make it sound like this group buy thing was either your idea, the OP's idea from the other thread, or like the idea behind the group buy was to get MKS straps or doubles. I think a group buy for Toshi singles would be a great idea. I think a group buy for Toshi singles and doubles would be a great idea. The intent I originally had though was not a group buy for only doubles or for another brand.

It is also worth remembering that while Toshi straps are reasonably long and will fit a wide foot well, that some other Japanese track straps are not as long. Anything even a little shorter than the Toshi straps are going to pose a problem for some members of this board who may have large wide feet which is way more typical of American men than of Japanese men. As this board has a majority of American members, that is an important detail to look at when deciding on straps. I have double e wide feet, so I mention this from personal experience.

And just to reiterate from the other thread, I have used doubles myself. I find they are great when used for their intended purpose. I found that for hill climbs and TT's they were the cat's PJ's. But that was when I was using them with leather or nylon soled cycling shoes with cleats and had the straps tightened till my feet were completely locked in. In situations where I was going to have to seriously hammer and releasing from a pedal was a risk, doubles made sense. I just don't personally think they are all that great for riding in NYC. YMMV.

If anybody wants to try to change my mind by loaning me a pair of Toshi doubles so I can compare them directly to Toshi singles, I'll give you my updated opinion, though it very well may not change.

The reality is that doubles look cooler to some people, look more "track" to some people, and I've been told might work better for some people that prefer to ride with loose straps (though I can't understand why one would chose to do so all the time). As these things don't really effect me, it was never my intent to own a pair for NYC riding.

Heck, they'd probably be stolen off my bike in no time flat anyway, and would make my bike stand out to thieves that much more. I would consider a pair of doubles for when I ride centuries though, just so I can see how they compare in this respect to singles or clipless.

Toe straps have traditionally been used both ways by cyclists. That's why toe strap companies have made toe strap end buttons. Which one uses, often depends on how often the straps need to be tightened and un-tightened. Twenty five or so years ago when clipless was still a new thing, it broke down sort of like this. In road racing (stage, TT's, points, crits, etc.), we tended to tuck into the buckles. Granted there were exceptions to the rules, like certain short contests where immediate pack placement and immediate sprinting from the start meant buttons were more beneficial. My understanding is that most track cyclists have also preferred to tuck into the buckle too. This has a lot to do with the ability to track stand, use railings, and have bikes held pre-race. Bike touring, at least in the 1980's was pretty split with button and buckle tucking. I tended to prefer buttons for touring, but many other people took the tucking in route. For urban riding, like in NYC, and even congested suburban riding, the vast majority of riders before clipless (who were serious cyclists) either used buttons or didn't, but rarely ever tucked into the buckle. Tucking into the buckles while constantly tightening and un-tightening, as one does in urban riding with stop and go traffic and intersections, is a serious PITA that slows you down and can lead to accidents caused by an avoidable distraction.