i guess part of the reason i'm also saying that is because i have a manitou right now and i have it set as stiff as it goes and the thing is still sloppy as hell. what other smaller bike companies are you guys talking about that have better bang for your buck prices? i'm looking to buy a bike between $1000-1500 and am leaning towards a stumpjumper but i'd love to spend my money more wisely if i find another bike which feels as good. i have access to four local bike shops