Originally Posted by Koffee Brown
As Lance Armstrong is a good endurance rider (for example), are you stating that he is no stronger than others in his age group?
I may believe more inclined to believe this if an endurance rider does little or no strength training and spends most of their time doing aerobic activity, but Chris Carmichael does stress strength training in the off season for Lance, as well as weight training for muscle maintenance during the competitive season.
I think that if an endurance rider is trying to lift heavy for weight training to gain maximum muscle mass, there is definitely going to be compromising of endurance capabilities. An endurance rider does use weight training to strengthen muscles, but I don't think they use strength training to build massive muscles. All that extra weight would actually hinder them with speed, hills, etc.
I was under the impression that athletes are encouraged to use weight training to maintain muscle mass, and especially to prevent more of their Type II, or fast twitch, muscle fibers from converting as quickly to type I, or slow twitch), muscle fibers as a person ages, as well as to train the Type 1 muscle fibers to contract more quickly (of course, I am talking generally, since I do know there are different types of muscle fibers). While I do think that over time, endurance athletes' Type II muscle can covert from B to A, which can lead to a somewhat weakened response, they should still have more overall strength than the undtrained sedentary person of the same age group and gender.
This is what I believe Joe Signorile, who lectures and does research in exercise physiology and aging in Miami was telling us when I attended his last lecture. Dr. Len Kravitz, who is also does research solely for exercise physiology at New Mexico, also lectured as much when I saw him at his last lecture.
Are you assuming that the sedentary controls are doing the same strength training as the endurance athlete and the sedentary controls are not doing endurance, or do you assume that the endurance athlete does no resistance training, and only does endurance training, and you compare the muscle strength of the athlete with no resistance training with the sedentary person who also does no resistance training? And finally, do you take into account the exercise intensity of the elite endurance athlete, who (from the lectures I've attended, this is what they say, mind you) have trained at higher intensities to maintain motor neuron firing capacity, which should lead to a longer life of faster contracting muscle fibers, as opposed to the sedentary person that does nothing?
I'm always open to clarification... perhaps I have just confused the information out of the lectures, and I need a bit of emphasis. Could you go through this, and just dumb it down a little so that everyone can follow it too. Thanks!
Koffee
On average, elite pros are no stronger than age, gender and mass matched sedentary controls. it would be impossible to speculate on LA, as i've never tested him.
people tend to maintain muscle mass perfectly fine. there may be a possibility that some TdF riders don't due to extreme nature of the event. i'm assuming that no one here is riding the TdF.
There's two ways (actually, three, the third being a combination of the other two) to increase strength. 1) increase in muscle cross sectional area -- increases here will help increase peak power (i.e., 5-sec sprint power), this can also be increased with on the bike training. you then have more mass to lug uphill (= bad)
2) increase in strength through neuromuscular gains. these adaptations only occur at the specific joint angle and velocity at which they're trained. there's no cross over to another modality
people, in general, maintain their strength in to their 50's and 60's.
in general, untrained, sedentary, (healthy) people are as strong as elite cyclists.
as you increase your aerobic fitness, you increase aerobic machinery (e.g., mitochondria, capillary density) this replaces contractile proteins and thus your strength decreases.
the forces involved in elite cycling are very low, such that most people can meet them. for e.g., using first principles we can estimate that LA would have TTed ~ 430 W up Alpe d'Huez to win the TT. from that we can calculate that the average force on the pedals would have amounted to ~ 250 Newtons (~ 25 kg) between *both* legs. In other words, you'd be hard pressed to find a male (or even a female) of similar age (and who is healthy) who couldn't generate that force.
also, see
http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=strengthstern
ric