"as you increase muscle mass - hypertrophy (increased muscle cross sectional area) which occurs from weight training and provides a true increase in strength (as opposed to neuromuscular adaptations), there will be a decrease in muscle capillary density and muscle mitochondrial density, which will both mean a decrease in aerobic and anaerobic performance. you will also have more weight to lug uphill with no corresponding increase in power, and this will make you slower all-round"

Rick,

Ive been following thes thread quite closley and so far its pretty interesting. How Quantifiable are the differences?? can somone give a percentage? a time difference? or some other real world value?

Another thing is you refer to " a trained rider" at what point is a rider considered trained as opposed to untrained?? again is this able to measured in the real world or is it based on somones oppinion

These arent having a go at you, or anyone else, however i just see them as being important to understand where you and others are comming from.