Originally Posted by
Landgolier
Stricter tolerances? Are you a qualified machinist with the tools to determine this, or did you just read this somewhere? If so, where?
Nope I am not, but lets use NJS as an example- there is a reason that formula hubs don't sport an NJS stamp. Despite all the hype, Nihon Jitensha Shinkōkai is still a a legitimate body with extremely strict standards for the products they approve. But we're talking about use on the road, so I digress.
Originally Posted by
Landgolier
The materials are better? It's the same steel and Al, really it is, I promise. There isn't some VIP section of the periodic table you can't get access too for under $100 a hub, and the types of alloys used in this stuff don't differ enough in price to talk about. I will give you that the formula lock nuts are made from steel that is a little too hard and brittle, but this can be remedied for $2.
Let's use Phil as an example here. Yes, both are made of 6000 series ai. Formula uses stock 6061 while Phil uses a proprietary 6000 series alloy custom made for them. It has a tighter grain which translates into a hub they guarantee for life against defects or breakage. That has to say something about their product- oh and no, it's not the same Al.
Originally Posted by
Landgolier
The races are smoother? Apples to oranges, with a faint whiff that you don't even know what you're talking about. The formula hubs most of us use are cartridge bearing, the races are in the bearing itself. What's machined into the hub are the bearing seats, which I've looked at and they're primo.
What I will say here is a did get ahead of myself and put loose ball hubs into the mix. But I must ask, by merely looking at the bearing seats, what
qualifies you to decide they are "primo"?
Originally Posted by
Landgolier
Thread quality? Please describe for us the tools you used (or would use) to tell the difference in threading quality between formulas and more expensive hubs.
I use magical tools that gingerly caress the hub thread, but seriously, why do you wanna know what's in my toolbox? We are talking hubs, not tools. But if you must know I use a DA chainwhip and Hozan locking pliers. Hopefully those pass your tool standards. But that is beside the point. And maybe this goes to the comment above about more people having formulas, but I stand by the comment that you hear more stories of stripped formula threads then any of the marquee brands.
Originally Posted by
Landgolier
Lockrings that last? Newsflash: most formula hubsets and prebuilt wheels don't come with lockrings, and the ones that formula does sell are perfectly good. Some complete bikes do come with cheesy stamped lock rings on fomula hubs, but whose fault is that?
I guess I just straight up disagree with you here. Formula lockrings are crap. They are soft and easily strip. Do a google search. I'm not alone on this one- and I'm talking about the formula ones, which in my opinion fall into the category of the cheap stamped ones.
Originally Posted by
Landgolier
Axle, cone, and bearing quality is a million times better? I've never heard of any issues with the axles on formulas. Campy axles are nothing to get excited about, DA are stainless which looks great but isn't necessary, and phil uses hi-ten steel just like formula. Formulas don't even really have cones, not sure what you're talking about there. The bearings are very, very good, and when they go they can be replaced with the highest grade out there for not much money. Also, the nice thing about formulas (and phils) is that the bearings going out can't ruin the hub. If a Campy or DA hub gets run dry the races can pit, and then it's done for.
Again, I will admit being wrong here and jumping ahead of myself by mixing comments about sealed bearing and loose bearing hubs. However, there is no way you can compare say a campy axle to a formula axle- but that is beside the point as we are talking about sealed bearing hubs. Where I totally disagree with you is when you say the bearings are "very, very good". That is just untrue. The bearings are okay, but by no means very x2 good. And if you are buying a new set of hubs, and have to replace the bearings and lockring, why not just spend a bit more and get say a miche hub you can use right out of the box?
Originally Posted by
Landgolier
I have formulas, campy record road hubs, and a lot of good shimano stuff, and under no circumstances have I ever been able to feel the difference in any quality hub while riding. Anyone who thinks they can is full of it, hubs just don't contribute anything significant to road feel.
Really, I'm with Operator on this one. There is a huge difference in smoothness between say a campy record hub and a formula or phil for that matter. That is like saying you ride both clinchers and tubulars and they feel the same.